Dashcam legality

[tangey]

Or I refuse to cooperate in making Britain a surveillance state because there is no guarantee that we will forever have a benign government.



I'll give you a true story of a maniac with a grudge who overtook me then brake tested me. I had my wits about me and drove around him. No camera required but my eyes.
However bad being brake tested is, there's still no excuse for being caught out by it. Either you were driving too close or could have used the lane to the right the brake tester was previously in to avoid a collision.

But how does this argue against dashcams not reducing insurance premiums ? If the guy is clearly seen from the dashcam as delibrately trying to cause an accident, any right minded person should make the police aware of the attempt. Also should they come across someone without your wits, the insurance campany will use the video to deny their claim if it is clearly shown that they acted to deliberately cause an accident. "A rabbit ran out in front of the car", doesn't really work when there is video that shows there was no rabbit.

if both scenarios happen often enough, it'll end the insurance scam.

 

[grober]

In Germany and posssibly Austria by analogy dashcam usage is frowned on/banned because it impinges on an individuals Informational Self Determination rights. To gain a greater insight into this way of thinking it may be useful to remember this may have its origins in people's experience of living in a totalitarian society/police state where individuals were positively encouraged to spy on their neigbours for the state and report any enfringement to the authorities. One can see the positive advantages of dashcam usage but they can have a down side too like the paedophile who just happens to be always driving past the local primary school when its getting out or that "delivery van" cruising through your residential estate scoping out where all the "nice cars" live on the drive?
https://oppositelock.kinja.com/the-problem-with-dashcam-videos-in-germany-1623794616
Informational self-determination - Wikipedia

 

[219]

It's also worth noting that in some countries you can be done for possessing a dash cam, so even having one turned off in the glove box could be a problem.

It is just a video camera , same as any other one might take on holiday .

I've yet to visit a country where tourists are forbidden to take photos ( or videos ) , military establishments etc excepted .

And that includes some eastern bloc countries .

 

[219]

In Germany and posssibly Austria by analogy dashcam usage is frowned on/banned because it impinges on an individuals Informational Self Determination rights. To gain a greater insight into this way of thinking it may be useful to remember this may have its origins in people's experience of living in a totalitarian society/police state where individuals were positively encouraged to spy on their neigbours for the state and report any enfringement to the authorities. One can see the positive advantages of dashcam usage but they can have a down side too like the paedophile who just happens to be always driving past the local primary school when its getting out or that "delivery van" cruising through your residential estate scoping out where all the "nice cars" live on the drive?
https://oppositelock.kinja.com/the-problem-with-dashcam-videos-in-germany-1623794616
Informational self-determination - Wikipedia

Every dash cam I've owned has the facility to record in short 3 minute loops , which are automatically overwritten by the subsequent one , so that no recording of a journey is retained , and you only keep the footage of the last three minutes if an incident occurs ( most actually allow you to choose the length of the loop up to usually a maximum of 5 minutes ) . In some cameras there is a g-force detector which automatically locks and saves the current clip if a collision is detected .

I must admit I don't understand the obsession with publishing such recordings online ; although I've had dash cams in my cars for many years that is something I've just never done .

 

[Petrol Pete]

It's also worth noting that in some countries you can be done for possessing a dash cam, so even having one turned off in the glove box could be a problem.

No sure if still law, but in France a while back having a Sat Nav unit with speed camera map on it is illegal, even if switched off and in glove box, must be in boot of car. Radar detector ? probably go directly to jail do not collect 200Euro !!

 

[ph47mf]

I'll give you a true story of a maniac with a grudge who overtook me then brake tested me. I had my wits about me and drove around him. No camera required but my eyes.
However bad being brake tested is, there's still no excuse for being caught out by it. Either you were driving too close or could have used the lane to the right the brake tester was previously in to avoid a collision.

With all due respect, that's just one situation. There are many others that are difficult to avoid or explain.

If you were my driver in that accident, you wouldn't stand a chance in avoiding that woman, no one could, my guy was in lane 1 and she was in lane 2, she overtook a lorry and without checking her mirrors she moved back into lane 1 right into my driver's car and both ended up in a ditch. No amount of wits or superhuman sight would have prepared you for that. There was no CCTV, no one stopped to help, just her words against my driver's, as you know, the footage saved the day.

 

[Bellow]

But how does this argue against dashcams not reducing insurance premiums ? If the guy is clearly seen from the dashcam as delibrately trying to cause an accident, any right minded person should make the police aware of the attempt.

How often do events like this actually happen? What percentage of claims and payouts are related to deliberate creation of a collision?
I did make the police aware of the event and the preceding (barging from the side that forward and reverse facing cams wouldn't have recorded), and subsequent altercation which I had audio recording of (at the side of the car, again no footage would have existed as he approached from the rear). The police visited him and presented their report to the CPS but no further action was taken. Would a dash cam made a difference? Possibly for the brake test but not much else would have been captured. Beware a false sense of security.

Also should they come across someone without your wits, the insurance campany will use the video to deny their claim if it is clearly shown that they acted to deliberately cause an accident. "A rabbit ran out in front of the car", doesn't really work when there is video that shows there was no rabbit.


if both scenarios happen often enough, it'll end the insurance scam.

Footage showing the 'victim' driving closer than prudent could cause complications in assessing liability but I get your point that many of the scams could be avoided. I ask again though, are they sufficient in number to justify mandatory fitment of dash cams? What if instead of a 3-5min recorded loop entire journeys and destinations are relayed to the internet and recorded for posterity?

 

[Deleted member 126251]

i'm guessing you don't use a dashcam hence why you don't know the benefit of having one?

I'll give you a true story, my driver was swiped off the motorway by a stupid woman, after the crash she claimed my driver was at fault and put a personal injury claim in for £20k, my insurance (company insurance) was ready to pay out until a witness sent in a dashcam footage showing us what really happened. Imagine if all cars had it built it, that woman wouldn't be ballsy enough to try it on and as others have mentioned it will probably reduce crash for cash claims and in turn reduce overall premium.

Hope she was prosecuted for a fraudulent claim....

 

[st13phil]

I have seen some very aggressive behaviour from cyclists and bikers wearing helmet cameras.

I can't help but think that the presence of a camera on their head makes them more confrontational and aggressive.

Firstly they feel that the camera protects them and makes them immune, if not invincible, and the result is that it gives them courage and makes them fearless.

I do think that there is a tendency for the more militant "I know my rights" brigade of cyclists to see a helmet cam as giving themselves some sort of invincibility shield and the authority to act as a vigilante, both of which are unhelpful.

While I agree with the statement that "cameras are here to stay", I'm not convinced that their universal use is always helpful. Those who labour under the misapprehension that blanket surveillance by our peers is benign would do well to visit (for example) the House of Terror in Budapest.

 

[markjay]

I do think that there is a tendency for the more militant "I know my rights" brigade of cyclists to see a helmet cam as giving themselves some sort of invincibility shield and the authority to act as a vigilante, both of which are unhelpful....

I would take it a step further, I have seen situations where camera-equipped riders seemingly avoided evasive action on purpose up to the last minute, in order to maximise the effect of the footage.

E.g., when entering a junction where a car that should have let them pass but didn't, in the old days riders would just slow down and shake their heads. In recent times, I see riders who appear to be accelerating towards danger, only to brake or swerve in the last minute, and sometimes also blocking the offending car then staring straight ahead at the car (ensuring the driver is in the centre of the frame...) and letting the driver know what they think of the event, with the mandatory 'I've got it on camera you know' thrown in.

 

[Bellow]

I would take it a step further, I have seen situations where camera-equipped riders seemingly avoided evasive action on purpose up to the last minute, in order to maximise the effect of the footage.

E.g., when entering a junction where a car that should have let them pass but didn't, in the old days riders would just slow down and shake their heads. In recent times, I see riders who appear to be accelerating towards danger, only to brake or swerve in the last minute, and sometimes also blocking the offending car then staring straight ahead at the car (ensuring the driver is in the centre of the frame...) and letting the driver know what they think of the event, with the mandatory 'I've got it on camera you know' thrown in.

Shites, camera, action!

 

[Bellow]

Those who labour under the misapprehension that blanket surveillance by our peers is benign would do well to visit (for example) the House of Terror in Budapest.

Prohibition of alcohol? Brits are giving them all the enforcement tools needed if it were to happen (to give a very mild and simple example).

 

[st13phil]

The trouble with video footage taken out of context is that it can actually reinforce an incorrect assumption rather than dispelling it. Add in people who want to use that to "justify" something and you have a recipe for oppression.

 

[Bellow]

In addition to things already mentioned, our world is heading to a time where distinguishing the real from the fake may well be impossible (visually at least). The continuing progress in CGI and other editing methods that have already given rise to fake videos isn't going away. When we see Trump's PR crew deliberately speed up genuine footage to make it appear that an act of violence was perpetrated - who really knows where this will lead?

Can a memory card overwritten hundreds of times be proven to the standard required in a court of law to be showing genuine footage? How can fakes be proven to the same standard to be falsified?

 

[flowrider]

Every dash cam I've owned has the facility to record in short 3 minute loops , which are automatically overwritten by the subsequent one , so that no recording of a journey is retained , and you only keep the footage of the last three minutes if an incident occurs ( most actually allow you to choose the length of the loop up to usually a maximum of 5 minutes ) . In some cameras there is a g-force detector which automatically locks and saves the current clip if a collision is detected .

I must admit I don't understand the obsession with publishing such recordings online ; although I've had dash cams in my cars for many years that is something I've just never done .

That's not how my dashcams work, whats the point of having a 64gb sd card when it will only store one 3 minute recording? All dashcams will record in 3 minute loops (configurable) but do not overwrite any recordings until the memory card is full and only then do they overwrite the oldest recording. This way you can have full journey's recorded and saved on the memory card dependant on the length of the journey. The g-force detector generally works poorly resulting in a memory card filling up with recordings every time the car hits a pothole!

 

[markmifsud]

That's not how my dashcams work, whats the point of having a 64gb sd card when it will only store one 3 minute recording? All dashcams will record in 3 minute loops (configurable) but do not overwrite any recordings until the memory card is full and only then do they overwrite the oldest recording. This way you can have full journey's recorded and saved on the memory card dependant on the length of the journey. The g-force detector generally works poorly resulting in a memory card filling up with recordings every time the car hits a pothole!

This is exactly how all the dashcams work that I have setup. Normally I set to 5min segments but it records until the card is full, then deletes files one at a time(oldest first) that have not been marked as locked.

 

[219]

That's not how my dashcams work, whats the point of having a 64gb sd card when it will only store one 3 minute recording? All dashcams will record in 3 minute loops (configurable) but do not overwrite any recordings until the memory card is full and only then do they overwrite the oldest recording. This way you can have full journey's recorded and saved on the memory card dependant on the length of the journey. The g-force detector generally works poorly resulting in a memory card filling up with recordings every time the car hits a pothole!

If you turn off loop recording then it will record continuously until the card is full and then stop ; otherwise you just get the one short loop .

 

[ringway]

See below.

 

[ringway]

I have seen some very aggressive behaviour from cyclists and bikers wearing helmet cameras.

I can't help but think that the presence of a camera on their head makes them more confrontational and aggressive.

Firstly they feel that the camera protects them and makes them immune, if not invincible, and the result is that it gives them courage and makes them fearless.

Then, in the process they are obtaining what they think is great footage for their YouTube channel or Facebook page.

So I don't think that cameras are not really a silent witness... instead they are far from being passive and they change the way that drivers interact with other road users.

Good or bad? I don't know, but it's the new reality and I think that cameras are here to stay.

It would seem a lot of cyclists just can't wait for some sort of trouble, often riding two, three or more abreast as though untouchable.
I actually think they ride in a way to provoke and bring about a confrontation so that they can upload and show others as soon as they get home.
There should be a law to shoot out some of the lights on bikes these days.
I remember thinking there was a bleedin' space ship heading towards me one evening.
Ultra bright, (it seemed as though) head, shoulders knees and toes were all moving around and flashing, which was actually quite distracting.
No chance of such lights being legal on a car.

 

[AltonAnt]

It would seem a lot of cyclists just can't wait for some sort of trouble, often riding two, three or more abreast as though untouchable.

I can’t say I’ve ever seen more than two abreast tbh which is perfectly legal. You should give cyclists as much room as another car when overtaking so what is the actual issue? Most cyclist do also drive and are not some distinct group.