Daytime Running Lights?

[kwakdonut]

As an aside, is it likely that every car running around with DRL's will make the roads unsafer for motorcyclists?

Just thinking that the guys who ride with lights on to be seen will become less visible if just about every vehicle is lit up.....

In a word, yes.

There was a huge thread about this a little while back.

As a biker, I personally feel that cars do not need DLR lights.

They are big and wide with four wheels.

Bikes are slim, short and have two wheels.

Guess who needs to be more visible?!!

EU sucks big time - I shall vote for the party that pulls us out of this bureaucratic mess

 

[dchester]

EU sucks big time - I shall vote for the party that pulls us out of this bureaucratic mess

Based on that lil graphic... The Monster Raving Headbanging Party?



D.

 

[kwakdonut]

Lol - more like the 'Common Sense, Something That Has Disappeared From These Shores' Party!!!

 

[NewMB]

As an aside, is it likely that every car running around with DRL's will make the roads unsafer for motorcyclists?

Just thinking that the guys who ride with lights on to be seen will become less visible if just about every vehicle is lit up.....

It has been proven to be safer on the roads while using lights on 24/7. Scandinavia has had this for as long as anyone cares to remember. Poland and Germany have it now + a load of other east european countries.

Lights are good also in very strong sunlight as you may "think" you can see a car in the distance when the sun glare is in your face.... the lights on does make that car more visible.

The concerns about motorcycles being less visible is only a concern in the UK. Most bikers drive like maniacs anyway between cars, fast around bends etc and IMO any accidents are mainly caused by reckless driving from their side. Of course, not all bikers are like this.

 

[kwakdonut]

It has been proven to be safer on the roads while using lights on 24/7. Scandinavia has had this for as long as anyone cares to remember. Poland and Germany have it now + a load of other east european countries. Yes, where the amount of dark hours is far greater than the UK!

Lights are good also in very strong sunlight as you may "think" you can see a car in the distance when the sun glare is in your face.... the lights on does make that car more visible. [edit]******** Use your eyes, wear sunglasses. How the heck is having headlights on in strong sunshine going to make your 2 ton, 16 foot car any more visible?

The concerns about motorcycles being less visible is only a concern in the UK. Most bikers drive like maniacs anyway between cars, fast around bends etc and IMO any accidents are mainly caused by reckless driving from their side. Of course, not all bikers are like this. Oh dear, you so have opened a can of worms there! 'Most bikers drive like maniacs' hmmmm then you backtrack big time by saying 'Of course, not all bikers are like this'! Wow, get your facts straight first please.

I will reiterate that a very long thread was debated a while back and I for one, didn't want to restart it!

 

[dchester]

I will reiterate that a very long thread was debated a while back and I for one, didn't want to restart it!

You're learning how to duck flack like a politician anhow

D.

 

[Baron_Samedi]

At times like this the words of the illustrious Harry Hill spring to mind...

FIIIIIGGGGGGGHHHHHHTTTTT!!!

 

[NewMB]

Originally Posted by NewMB
It has been proven to be safer on the roads while using lights on 24/7. Scandinavia has had this for as long as anyone cares to remember. Poland and Germany have it now + a load of other east european countries. Yes, where the amount of dark hours is far greater than the UK!
I agree, except for summer time when it is reversed. But what about other countries in Continental Europe?

Lights are good also in very strong sunlight as you may "think" you can see a car in the distance when the sun glare is in your face.... the lights on does make that car more visible. [edit]********Use your eyes, wear sunglasses. How the heck is having headlights on in strong sunshine going to make your 2 ton, 16 foot car any more visible?
No need for faul language.

As I am sure you agree, the sun light at certain times (ie late afternoon) can be really strong and low, this causes the sun to glare right in your eyes and no sunglasses can stop the sunglare! As a result of low sun glare, you can see less of the road ahead of you, ie that car coming the opposite way. DRL's on cars, are at a low level which makes you being able to see them a lot easier than if they did not have DRL's. Quite simple I think.

The concerns about motorcycles being less visible is only a concern in the UK. Most bikers drive like maniacs anyway between cars, fast around bends etc and IMO any accidents are mainly caused by reckless driving from their side. Of course, not all bikers are like this. Oh dear, you so have opened a can of worms there! 'Most bikers drive like maniacs' hmmmm then you backtrack big time by saying 'Of course, not all bikers are like this'! Wow, get your facts straight first please.
Well, I think the facts are pretty straight forward. Most bikers, not all - for clarification, do drive very dangerously and this is my opinion having been involved in a collision a few years ago with a biker who ignored certain traffic rules and came into the side of my car..... he flew about 15 metres and broke a few bones. He does not bike anymore... (but survived).

 

[NewMB]

I will reiterate that a very long thread was debated a while back and I for one, didn't want to restart it!

I agree.

 

[kwakdonut]

Originally Posted by NewMB
It has been proven to be safer on the roads while using lights on 24/7. Scandinavia has had this for as long as anyone cares to remember. Poland and Germany have it now + a load of other east european countries. Yes, where the amount of dark hours is far greater than the UK!
I agree, except for summer time when it is reversed. But what about other countries in Continental Europe?

Lights are good also in very strong sunlight as you may "think" you can see a car in the distance when the sun glare is in your face.... the lights on does make that car more visible. [edit]********Use your eyes, wear sunglasses. How the heck is having headlights on in strong sunshine going to make your 2 ton, 16 foot car any more visible?
No need for faul language.

As I am sure you agree, the sun light at certain times (ie late afternoon) can be really strong and low, this causes the sun to glare right in your eyes and no sunglasses can stop the sunglare! As a result of low sun glare, you can see less of the road ahead of you, ie that car coming the opposite way. DRL's on cars, are at a low level which makes you being able to see them a lot easier than if they did not have DRL's. Quite simple I think.

The concerns about motorcycles being less visible is only a concern in the UK. Most bikers drive like maniacs anyway between cars, fast around bends etc and IMO any accidents are mainly caused by reckless driving from their side. Of course, not all bikers are like this. Oh dear, you so have opened a can of worms there! 'Most bikers drive like maniacs' hmmmm then you backtrack big time by saying 'Of course, not all bikers are like this'! Wow, get your facts straight first please.
Well, I think the facts are pretty straight forward. Most bikers, not all - for clarification, do drive very dangerously and this is my opinion having been involved in a collision a few years ago with a biker who ignored certain traffic rules and came into the side of my car..... he flew about 15 metres and broke a few bones. He does not bike anymore... (but survived).

I will reiterate that you are talking complete hocum with no facts to back you up! Most bikers are considerate and observant people who are ALSO drivers of cars. A minority of car drivers dislike the fact that we can LEGALLY filter, overtake where cars cannot and make progress an awful lot quicker.

Nuff said here....

 

[st13phil]

It has been proven to be safer on the roads while using lights on 24/7. Scandinavia has had this for as long as anyone cares to remember. Poland and Germany have it now + a load of other east european countries.

The safety argument does not hold true in all countries where DRL's have been implemented. Scandinavian countries have very specific natural lighting conditions (due to their proximity to the pole) which makes research there largely invalid in most other locations. I suggest you look closely at the recent experience in Austria where compulsory daytime headlights or DRL's were made compulsory and accident rates for vulnerable road users actually went up, not down. They repealed the complusory daytime lighting requirement as a result.

The concerns about motorcycles being less visible is only a concern in the UK.

Not true. It has been the subject of significant (but unsuccessful - politicians and bureaucrats never let the facts get in the way of a road safety "good idea") lobbying campaign by motorcyclists throughout Europe.

Most bikers, not all - for clarification, do drive very dangerously and this is my opinion having been involved in a collision a few years ago with a biker who ignored certain traffic rules and came into the side of my car.

Thankyou for the benefit of your opinion which, as far as I can tell, is based upon the ill-judged actions of one rider which has conveniently turned into "most". If you were have to made a similar pronouncement about any other group based upon similar prejudice (e.g. most priests are paedophiles, most people with non-white skin are thieves, most <insert minority group and stereotypical bad behaviour>, etc.) you would quite rightly be vilified for your statement, and possibly face legal sanction, so wouldn't have made it. Perhaps you could accord motorcyclists the same freedom from your prejudices as you would those other groups?

 

[G.O'Rilla]

I also like them....as long as its the bright white LEDs Audi put on their cars with xenons ...i dont like the cheaper version that aren/t as bright...looks a bit cheap and nasty

Am in Netherlands at the moment and it is a nasty sight to see these faux Audi lights coming up at a rate of knots in the rear view mirror. The LED ones used to look a bit cool until they started to appear on Corsas and Vectras, but the ordinary ones just look plain 'orrible.

As a few others have said - put the headlights on; at least it doesn't look tacky ........

 

[LimitedSlip]

The concerns about motorcycles being less visible is only a concern in the UK. Most bikers drive like maniacs anyway between cars, fast around bends etc and IMO any accidents are mainly caused by reckless driving from their side. Of course, not all bikers are like this.

Well, I think the facts are pretty straight forward. Most bikers, not all - for clarification, do drive very dangerously and this is my opinion

Wow... two consecutive posts of biggoted rubbish. No guesses needed as to who has never been near riding a 'bike.

My own personal biggotry is this: all the best drivers I know without exception are either current or past 'bikers, whether on roads or tracks.

Dangerously? How do you even know?

I will stick my neck out here and hazard a guess as to the circumstances of your accident with the biker, so apologies if I am wrong. The "certain traffic rules" he ignored being the speed limit? Sorry, no excuse. The speed of an approaching vehicle does not absolve one of the requirement to give way. You must look and judge properly. There may be several reasons that the bike was going quickly (Police bike for one example), it's a different issue.

The concerns about motorcycles being less visible is only a concern in the UK.

It would seem of little concern to you! Perhaps in this regard, there may be a case for more of Europe to be concerned.

 

[LimitedSlip]

Lights are good also in very strong sunlight as you may "think" you can see a car in the distance when the sun glare is in your face.... the lights on does make that car more visible.

I agree with you on this one though. I always turn my lights on when there is a strong or low sun behind me. I still don't think there is a case for blanket full-time lighting however.

 

[G-Force]

I Kind of agre G O rilla, i like the origional Audi white LED's but they are starting to appear on silly cars in silly places.

Just a quick note on the biking thing...(and i owned various Suzuki's and a Hayabusa) i always drove with the headlight on and last time in Germany with my brother, he told me it was illegal to drive with main beam on???
Baffled...i spoke to a Police instructor when back home...he told me that a high cause of bikers being T-Boned was because the car sitting at the junction thought he was being "flashed" to pull out....when in fact the bikers lights are only flickering up and down due to the harsh road conditions and firmer suspension...and i must admit, i have sometimes thought a bike travelling towards me was flashing me out too. It certainly made me think!!!!
I love bike's and will always try and leave as much room for biker's to pass as possible.....IMHO im not convinced riding with their main beam on is as good and safe an idea....i always put a noisy can on so at least people would hear me coming.

Sorry to dwell on the post but i didn't read the first one and i know how eager bikers are to defend themselves against cars and likewise.

 

[G.O'Rilla]

I don't agree with the comments about bikers above. There might be a small minority who do ride irresponsibly, but most bikers (self included) are very defensive, if progressive riders. It's a Darwinian necessity due to other road users frequently not looking ........

 

[NewMB]

Wow... two consecutive posts of biggoted rubbish. No guesses needed as to who has never been near riding a 'bike.

My own personal biggotry is this: all the best drivers I know without exception are either current or past 'bikers, whether on roads or tracks.

Dangerously? How do you even know?

I will stick my neck out here and hazard a guess as to the circumstances of your accident with the biker, so apologies if I am wrong. The "certain traffic rules" he ignored being the speed limit? Sorry, no excuse. The speed of an approaching vehicle does not absolve one of the requirement to give way. You must look and judge properly. There may be several reasons that the bike was going quickly (Police bike for one example), it's a different issue.



It would seem of little concern to you! Perhaps in this regard, there may be a case for more of Europe to be concerned.

Unfortunately you are wrong, on a few points.

I have a bike licence. But don't use it. You should also get your facts clear before making a judgement.

The accident in question happened while the biker had a red light. Came too fast (according to the police) and went straight out into the junction, where clearly my car was in the way. According to the coppers, he had a speed of at least 60 mph. My car was written off...


kwakdonut:
LEGALLY filter, overtake where cars cannot and make progress an awful lot quicker.

Maybe I am wrong as I don't know this, but I would like to see where I could find out if this is true or not.... I would also like to know if this would include skipping ques, going between cars, zig-zaging and undertake.

These are the things that I have often seen and I don't think that this is particular good driving skills from those bikers, but perhaps they simply wants to be organ donors?

 

[G.O'Rilla]

Every day I see "good" filtering and also often some "bad" filtering. Not at all sure how legal it is, but certainly on the A12, even white van drivers will pull over and give room to a biker filtering "sensibly" - i.e. at a speed marginally higher than the rest of the traffic, leaving room and time to take preventative action.

T-boned at 60 through a red light (if I understand it correctly) and the biker deserves to be an organ donor and I understand your anger (I'd be mad too), but don't judge all bikers like that - most of us are very, very defensive riders - as above, we have to be..........

 

[NewMB]

Every day I see "good" filtering and also often some "bad" filtering. Not at all sure how legal it is, but certainly on the A12, even white van drivers will pull over and give room to a biker filtering "sensibly" - i.e. at a speed marginally higher than the rest of the traffic, leaving room and time to take preventative action.

T-boned at 60 through a red light (if I understand it correctly) and the biker deserves to be an organ donor and I understand your anger (I'd be mad too), but don't judge all bikers like that - most of us are very, very defensive riders - as above, we have to be..........

Thanks. I do also move if I see a biker.

If anyone took offence for my remark, I applogise. It was, of course, never meant to be understood the way it was written and/or directly at anyone or all bikers but was simply based on my own experience.

 

[Mark300SL]

I was in Death valley in June this year - and there are large areas of DV that are daylight headlight zones - ie Dipped headlights are compulsory at all times.

It soon became very clear to me that a car in the heat haze was a LOT more visible with headlights on and yet it caused me no discomfort or annoyance. Very quickly I also adopted the "lights on at all times" attitude every time I got in the Jeep and not just on mandated sections of road.