Been following this topic with interest as I do lots of short journeys around town and our petrol automatic Peugeot 207 is returning about 28MPG. I'm limited to an automatic for the main car as my wife has an automatic only license. Had ignored any modern diesel with a dpf for exactly the reasons stated. However, when I realised that the A and B Class diesels did not have a dpf until fairly recently meant that my options were broader - have bought a 2007 A180CDi auto which I pick up on Tuesday.
Diesels
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I've just gone back to petrol after an unhappy ( and expensive ) 18 months with a C270CDI .
Although the 190E 1.8 LE I've just bought will be less fuel efficient ( I seem to be getting around 35 mpg against the 47 I got with the diesel ) there is the difference in cost of the two fuels , of the order of 10p/litre which will narrow the gap .
The big thing for me has been the costly repairs with four diesel injectors needing replaced , as well as a long list of other failures ( admittedly not related to the Diesel engine ) which have put me off having a newer car and made me go back to the older ones which , in my experience , are better built , more reliable and cheaper to maintain .
I will perhaps expand further in another thread rather than hijack this one .
Although the 190E 1.8 LE I've just bought will be less fuel efficient ( I seem to be getting around 35 mpg against the 47 I got with the diesel ) there is the difference in cost of the two fuels , of the order of 10p/litre which will narrow the gap .
The big thing for me has been the costly repairs with four diesel injectors needing replaced , as well as a long list of other failures ( admittedly not related to the Diesel engine ) which have put me off having a newer car and made me go back to the older ones which , in my experience , are better built , more reliable and cheaper to maintain .
I will perhaps expand further in another thread rather than hijack this one .
renault12ts
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It narrows the gap, but not by much. You were getting 35% more mpg for only 8% greater cost in the fuel.
Dieselman
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Every 10,000 miles will cost you about £600 more in fuel.
As the only diesel specific issue with the 270 was the injectors, how did that balance out against the fuel savings?
No , not all the faults were diesel specific : others have just put me off having a newer car .
The bills for replacing the injectors alone came to around £1000 . These were genuine MB injectors fitted by my local Indy , Merparts . The fifth , and final one so far remains OK .
Then there was the lower suspension link arm at £157 which would have been a £12.50 ball joint on one of the older cars ( and one on the other side now needing done as well ) ; the 'bouncing' lock mechanism in the drivers door which , from memory , was about £70 ; unreliability of the electronic keys which I have yet to resolve ; failure of the rear wiper mechanism which will mean a visit to the scrappy as I'm not paying £200+ for a new one ; a front wheel bearing on the way out ; warped front discs ( for the second time - although these are Pagid discs bought from ECP and not genuine MB ) ; a diesel leak which I can smell in the engine bay but have yet to trace as nothing is visible .
I no longer enjoy driving that car as I'm just waiting for the next thing to go wrong ; it is currently parked up my drive as I work round the faults and once fixed will go up for sale . I spent about £100 servicing the 190 which is now running sweetly and is an absolute pleasure to drive , it just oozes quality at every turn .
The bills for replacing the injectors alone came to around £1000 . These were genuine MB injectors fitted by my local Indy , Merparts . The fifth , and final one so far remains OK .
Then there was the lower suspension link arm at £157 which would have been a £12.50 ball joint on one of the older cars ( and one on the other side now needing done as well ) ; the 'bouncing' lock mechanism in the drivers door which , from memory , was about £70 ; unreliability of the electronic keys which I have yet to resolve ; failure of the rear wiper mechanism which will mean a visit to the scrappy as I'm not paying £200+ for a new one ; a front wheel bearing on the way out ; warped front discs ( for the second time - although these are Pagid discs bought from ECP and not genuine MB ) ; a diesel leak which I can smell in the engine bay but have yet to trace as nothing is visible .
I no longer enjoy driving that car as I'm just waiting for the next thing to go wrong ; it is currently parked up my drive as I work round the faults and once fixed will go up for sale . I spent about £100 servicing the 190 which is now running sweetly and is an absolute pleasure to drive , it just oozes quality at every turn .
grober
MB Master
As I have pointed out before the mass adoption of diesel fueled cars in Europe runs contrary to the rest of the world who have in the main gone down the petrol hybrid path in the quest for lower emissions. This might indicate that there wider socio political reasons at play as to the choice of fuel in Europe---- personally I blame the French and General De Gaulle!
As said I also think it's a case of horses for courses. Personally and as a complete petrolhead I have never had a diesel and doubt I ever will. The sound is enough to put me off as crazy as that may be.
I am far more interested in petrol/hybrid tech and do think that is the future far more than diesel ever will be.
The only reason diesels are currently popular in Europe is due to a political stance, there are no real world reasons why they should be chosen over more modern technology these days!
I am far more interested in petrol/hybrid tech and do think that is the future far more than diesel ever will be.
The only reason diesels are currently popular in Europe is due to a political stance, there are no real world reasons why they should be chosen over more modern technology these days!
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My "bag of nails" comment applies to all diesel vehicles, including my friend's 2014 E220 CDI. It's lovely and quiet when you're inside at speeds above 10mph, but from the outside at tickover it rattles along with the rest of them, even when warm - most unpleasant to MY ear! I was a passenger in a new A-Class diesel a few weeks ago - it was even noisy on the inside!
I suppose the noise of diesel engines is as acceptable/hated in the same way as different music tastes. Some people think that One Direction's Midnight Memories is fantastic whilst others appreciate the stunning beauty of Santana's Samba Pa Ti. Each to their own - as long as you're not inflicting your preferences on those who don't care for them.
Simzy
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cb1965 said:
That is crazy, a diesel has a great sound IMO !! If you are coming from a petrol then you will be shocked at the noise but diesels are much more powerful than petrols ...!!!
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2012 C350 Petrol 306 hp (225 kW) 2012 C350 CDI Diesel 265 hp (195 kW)
When I was at school, hp (horsepower) and kW (kilowatts) were units of POWER. How can you claim that diesels are more powerful than petrols when my example above clearly proves that the Mercedes petrol engine provides over 15% more power than its equivalent diesel version?
Simzy
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knighterrant said:
Diesels are more powerful . The information you posted has no reference to where you found it please post this so we can clarify it as relevant information
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Judging from my earlier comparison with musical tastes, is it fair to assume that you're a fan of One Direction?
Simzy
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knighterrant said:Judging from my earlier comparison with musical tastes, is it fair to assume that you're a fan of One Direction?
No I'm not can we keep it serious rather than making childish comments . We are all of a reasonable age on this forum let us refrain from these silly, unhelpful comments.
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Information extracted from Mercedes-Benz C-Class Saloon and Estate price list MBW/S204PL/0911
I know there are other comparisons that have closer power figures, it's just that I enjoy disproving the numerous erroneous claims that diesels are more powerful than petrol engines. Can you provide any reliable referenced evidence to the contrary?
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Sorry. Note to self: do not introduce humour to posts because it may cause offence!
Simzy
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knighterrant said:
Thank you . Diesel fuel is more efficient than petrol fuel and provides more energy. Diesels also have more torque which is why diesel cars or vans are used for towing. Diesels are made in a more efficient way and I can practically guarantee that my Diesel engine is quicker than most of the cars around my area. Diesels also are more rugged engines than petrol ones with a lot of mercedes diesels clocking mileage of 200,000 or more. Petrols are inefficient and require quite a lot of maintenance although they are more quiet. Diesel engines are louder granted but they are better and I have owned both.
Simzy
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knighterrant said:Sorry. Note to self: do not introduce humour to posts because it may cause offence!
Yes on a serious thread thread it does cause offence keep your silly comments for your little Facebook friends
The problem at present, is that if you wish to buy a car upto say 5 yrs old, then you are pretty much stuck with a diesel on a MB.
95-97% of the used ones on MB used are diesel.
The ones that are not diesel often have a lowly spec, so are not worth considering, unless you are looking at AMGs in which case forget about economy.
So, I found there was no choice, unless one buys new (I have recently purchased 2 2nd hand 3 yr old ones for the price of 1 new car). They are both diesel, which I would not ideally have chosen.
A MB dealer recently said that they would not even consider buying in a 350 petrol. If they would, then the residuals would be much less.
95-97% of the used ones on MB used are diesel.
The ones that are not diesel often have a lowly spec, so are not worth considering, unless you are looking at AMGs in which case forget about economy.
So, I found there was no choice, unless one buys new (I have recently purchased 2 2nd hand 3 yr old ones for the price of 1 new car). They are both diesel, which I would not ideally have chosen.
A MB dealer recently said that they would not even consider buying in a 350 petrol. If they would, then the residuals would be much less.
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Yes but...
While regular maintenance costs for Diesel and Petrol engines are about the same (even if considering new spark plugs every 4 years for Petrol engines), the issue is that if things do go wrong then repair costs for Diesel engines are typically considerably higher than Petrol.
Diesel fuel pump, injectors, glow plugs (that brake inside the head..), DPF etc etc - each has the potential for writing-off an older car.
Not really a problem if buying a new or nearly-new car which is still under warranty, or if buying a well-maintained carrefully-driven old one.
Just to say that there are pros and cons to each.... I have a 1.8L Petrol Merc which I trust completely and a 1.6L Kia - the latter with a 7 years warranty... to my mind, there is no clear answer as to which is 'best'.
While regular maintenance costs for Diesel and Petrol engines are about the same (even if considering new spark plugs every 4 years for Petrol engines), the issue is that if things do go wrong then repair costs for Diesel engines are typically considerably higher than Petrol.
Diesel fuel pump, injectors, glow plugs (that brake inside the head..), DPF etc etc - each has the potential for writing-off an older car.
Not really a problem if buying a new or nearly-new car which is still under warranty, or if buying a well-maintained carrefully-driven old one.
Just to say that there are pros and cons to each.... I have a 1.8L Petrol Merc which I trust completely and a 1.6L Kia - the latter with a 7 years warranty... to my mind, there is no clear answer as to which is 'best'.
