Dishonest Garage? Or they might be right...?

Muckypaps

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We tend to assume taking your car for a repair to the main dealer is always the expensive option, but sometimes it can work out as the cheaper option.
You cannot buy experience.
I used to work at a main dealer, someone could fetch their vehicle in after having someone working on it for two days without success in diagnosing the problem, but because you work on same vehicles all day, and understand how they work, along with manufacturer training courses can help make your diagnosis quicker, so the main dealer could be the cheaper option.
 
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tgl3

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We tend to assume taking your car for a repair to the main dealer is always the expensive option, but sometimes it can work out as the cheaper option.
You cannot buy experience.
I used to work at a main dealer, someone could fetch their vehicle in after having someone working on it for two days without success in diagnosing the problem, but because you work on same vehicles all day, and understand how they work, along with manufacturer training courses can help make your diagnosis quicker, so the main dealer could be the cheaper option.
Yes that makes sense. Specialised on something is likely to achieve a better result than working generally. I don't know the price for replacing injectors at main dealers, but I assume its definite £££££:)
 
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tgl3

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We tend to assume taking your car for a repair to the main dealer is always the expensive option, but sometimes it can work out as the cheaper option.
You cannot buy experience.
I used to work at a main dealer, someone could fetch their vehicle in after having someone working on it for two days without success in diagnosing the problem, but because you work on same vehicles all day, and understand how they work, along with manufacturer training courses can help make your diagnosis quicker, so the main dealer could be the cheaper option.
Actually the garage now working on the car is belonged to a Motor Group who specialises in German car. I initially choose it because they claimed they're specialist in Mercedes on their website. You never know what is going to happen until you go for it😫
 

smythe

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Actually the garage now working on the car is belonged to a Motor Group who specialises in German car. I initially choose it because they claimed they're specialist in Mercedes on their website. You never know what is going to happen until you go for it😫
what side of brum are you ,i'm halesowen theres a few merc places around here i've used BENZTEC recently they have star and update DSB
 
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tgl3

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what side of brum are you ,i'm halesowen theres a few merc places around here i've used BENZTEC recently they have star and update DSB
I moved to Coventry last year and not live at brum anymore. It would be much easier to solve if back to burm as there're many choices there!
 

Tuercas viejas

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Just a few comments or questions.
When your car was delivered to this shop did they give you an estimate before starting work ?
Or did they simply tear into it before they contacted you for authorization to do ANY work on it, other than simply diagnose it ?

Essentially as a motor trader / repairer it makes good business practices to effectively diagnose the problem and probable repair, including the cost based upon the findings and giving a concise estimate (as best possible) for customer authorization.
Basically you and the car repair shop are entering into a simple Anglo Saxon contract, Offeree, Offeror, and Acceptance with Consideration, nothing more nothing less.
If they can't give you one, then there is usually something wrong and its Mr Caveat Emptor screaming! --Buyer Beware!

Back in the 70's in the UK I attended in Bristol Tech a two year evening course in shop management techniques, shop finance, accounting, & law ,basically these days the equivalent of an MBA.
So I know that these provisions exist in the UK for consumer protection and good business practices which of course builds confidence with the motoring public at large .

Now I don't need to mention that the UK and the USA were joined the hip once upon a time, and those same Anglo Saxon Laws are in full swing on this side .
As a benchmark the standard drill is to receive the vehicle and obtain a customer's permission by signature on the R/O authorizing the diagnosis FOR A SET FEE or maybe the repair in full having possibly received the estimate an the repair time examination .
We simply cannot move forward and start the repair without written customer authorization whether received physically , electronically an in some cases by verbal recording --Its the law.
Let is know how you get on , but from what I see without your authorizations these guys are wild cannons.
All the best
Tuercas Viejas
 
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tgl3

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Just a few comments or questions.
When your car was delivered to this shop did they give you an estimate before starting work ?
Or did they simply tear into it before they contacted you for authorization to do ANY work on it, other than simply diagnose it ?

Essentially as a motor trader / repairer it makes good business practices to effectively diagnose the problem and probable repair, including the cost based upon the findings and giving a concise estimate (as best possible) for customer authorization.
Basically you and the car repair shop are entering into a simple Anglo Saxon contract, Offeree, Offeror, and Acceptance with Consideration, nothing more nothing less.
If they can't give you one, then there is usually something wrong and its Mr Caveat Emptor screaming! --Buyer Beware!

Back in the 70's in the UK I attended in Bristol Tech a two year evening course in shop management techniques, shop finance, accounting, & law ,basically these days the equivalent of an MBA.
So I know that these provisions exist in the UK for consumer protection and good business practices which of course builds confidence with the motoring public at large .

Now I don't need to mention that the UK and the USA were joined the hip once upon a time, and those same Anglo Saxon Laws are in full swing on this side .
As a benchmark the standard drill is to receive the vehicle and obtain a customer's permission by signature on the R/O authorizing the diagnosis FOR A SET FEE or maybe the repair in full having possibly received the estimate an the repair time examination .
We simply cannot move forward and start the repair without written customer authorization whether received physically , electronically an in some cases by verbal recording --Its the law.
Let is know how you get on , but from what I see without your authorizations these guys are wild cannons.
All the best
Tuercas Viejas
Hi Tuercas,

First of all many appreciation for your detailed comment! Based on what you described, It must be an enjoyable experience to have the car repaired at your shop!

Yes they have gave me an estimation of time during my first visit verbally; they said it will take approx. two weeks and it apparently exceeds now. They also told me that the fault might be caused by the faulty timing chain but could not give me an est. cost.

Regarding the authorization, they only requested it for twice; it usually happened when cost will be incurred. First time was for "investigating the problem", and the second time was before removing and sending the injectors for testing. No more authorization was requested since then. They just did what they believed is correct.

I was away from my home town during the past week so couldn't visit them personally. I tried to ring them for many times because I want to further discuss about the situation. Each time after I call them or send them an enquiry message, they just update me a short message few hours or a day later but they never call me back.

The last message saying they need to let the sample fuel drained from my car settled over the coming weekend, because "the fuel is still very dark and hasnt settled after 24 hours". I don't know if this procedure usually takes such long time, but from common sense I think there should be some tools such as filters that can help this process progressing more quickly than this. How on earth can they take 4 days to find out if theres any trace of mental in the fuel???
 

Tuercas viejas

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Hi Tuercas,

First of all many appreciation for your detailed comment! Based on what you described, It must be an enjoyable experience to have the car repaired at your shop!

Yes they have gave me an estimation of time during my first visit verbally; they said it will take approx. two weeks and it apparently exceeds now. They also told me that the fault might be caused by the faulty timing chain but could not give me an est. cost.

Regarding the authorization, they only requested it for twice; it usually happened when cost will be incurred. First time was for "investigating the problem", and the second time was before removing and sending the injectors for testing. No more authorization was requested since then. They just did what they believed is correct.

I was away from my home town during the past week so couldn't visit them personally. I tried to ring them for many times because I want to further discuss about the situation. Each time after I call them or send them an enquiry message, they just update me a short message few hours or a day later but they never call me back.

The last message saying they need to let the sample fuel drained from my car settled over the coming weekend, because "the fuel is still very dark and hasnt settled after 24 hours". I don't know if this procedure usually takes such long time, but from common sense I think there should be some tools such as filters that can help this process progressing more quickly than this. How on earth can they take 4 days to find out if theres any trace of mental in the fuel???
Bejezus
I can't afford to have a customer's car sitting about waiting for fuel to settle.
As a comparison our fuel (DERV) is often suspect, and a lot of our MB repairs are fuel quality related.
It ranges from accidental filling with petrol (gasoline) to buying fuel from a lonely Mom & Pop gas ( filling ) stations that doesn't sell DERV too much and you fill with contaminated fuel. (rainwater organisms)
Add that to variations in fuel standards from state to state (#1 &#2 diesel winter/summer blends) to amounts of Bio content sold State to State up to B20
Sometimes folks fill with the red tax free Ag Derv stuff, and then you get those that have visited Mexico with high sulphur fuel.
I/We see it all!
Drill is suck out the fuel and examine.
Take look in the tank with an endoscope. If it looks good then bung in 10 gallons of quality pump fresh fuel so a labor charge 1,5 hours $225 plus fuel @ $3,25 per a gallon $32,50.
Change out the fuel filter and examine, Labor 0,5 hrs $75 plus fuel filter (is on average $80 .) purge the lines
Bleed up & Go for start, look for pressure in the HP fuel system and see if there is injection. If it attains 250 bar at cranking or so it might start.
At this this stage all scanner diagnostic charges are complimentary, FOC.
Then we have to go back to the customer who might be waiting in reception.
It usually goes ,
Well Mr Jones you had contaminated fuel in the car and your filter was choked.
We are just going to push it up the mountain and test it looking at live data .If it checks out then the total charge will be

2 ,5 hours labor including road proving test .
$375 (GBP) 267
Materials:- 10 gallon DERV $32,50 (GBP 24,00)
I off fuel filter $80 (GBP 58)
Tax 4,6 % on the filter $3,68 (GBP 2,62)

Now if its still a non runner and maybe like your car with FIE problems, then I have to get further authorization .Often the vehicle has been dumped or pulled on the hook.
Hence an absent customer.
I have female service writer called Scotti (a skilled tech I recruited from a Nissan dealer ) who deals with most of this at the front end. ,Its her job to call & pester the customer nicely and sell the job .
Mr Jones
We have cleared the contaminated fuel , purged out all the fuel lines and installed new filter . Testing it we see that the rail pressure won't attain the 250 bar for optimum starting .
We need to remove the injectors charge 1 hour $150 and out source a test at the Bosch FIE dealer @ $50 per injector. The charge will be $200 plus 1 hour shop time .
That will be $350 do we have your permission to continue, if so please electrically sign the job ticket
. If I /we get your approval before 10,00 am we will have a test answer within 24 hours .
At that point we will discuss the repair options and charges.
The object is to reduce the wheel stop time and turn over successful repair jobs with a minimum of shop stall, or valuable hoist time, but maximizing profit margins, and keep customers happy with regular feed back, so that they don't feel neglected or put on the back burner
Tuercas viejas .
 
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Petrol Pete

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OP , unfortunately TV's garage it too far away from you for the AA tow your car there, If it had been towed there you would probably had it back fixed now ! :) And what he says in his last post is what you should be experiencing from a decent garage ( except the Bit about 10 gallons of diesel at £24...now that would be a bonus ! ) They have taken your car down a rabbit hole that they are struggling to get out of .

I really hope it gets sorted out soon.
 

bob6600

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I moved to Coventry last year and not live at brum anymore. It would be much easier to solve if back to burm as there're many choices there!
I am in Coventry mate and the first place I would use is Mercland. There are also a couple of 'German specialists' (Autowerx near Mercedes Dealer and Dack Motor Group on Torrington Ave) which would have been my next choices if I wanted to keep it in Cov. Who has the car now? Sounds like it's Dack?? If I still had my STAR Diag I would have plugged it in for free for you
 

Tuercas viejas

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OP , unfortunately TV's garage it too far away from you for the AA tow your car there, If it had been towed there you would probably had it back fixed now ! :) And what he says in his last post is what you should be experiencing from a decent garage ( except the Bit about 10 gallons of diesel at £24...now that would be a bonus ! ) They have taken your car down a rabbit hole that they are struggling to get out of .

I really hope it gets sorted out soon.
Sorry I forgot you would pay A LOT more for DERV on your side and it was $1.97 a gallon only recently!!
And the sales tax @ 4.6% where I am in Jefferson County , but you could pay up to 11% if my shop was in one of the ski resorts.
There is no sales tax on the labor content of a job in Colorado.
Hence there is no VAT of 20% in the USA .

Off the topic but if there are bean counters amongst the membership, this might make some interesting US tax reading .
It does to my missus, who is the head financial honcho in the back office, and an adult daughter who is the the bookkeeper & accounts receivable.
US Tax Burden on Labor | Tax Burden on Labor in the United States.
Tuercas viejas
 
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chic0821

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Not that it helps the OP, but the Americans seem to have customer service down to a tee. Having worked there they just have it right whether its garages, restaurants or anything else, the customer comes first, where as here we are an inconvenience. We are too nice. How many of us has had a crap meal, but when asked if we enjoyed it, we have said yes, its fine. In the States it would have been sent back. Recently I had a set of Powerstop brake pads bought through Amazon global. One had a slight chip on the leading edge, so I emailed Powerstop in the States to ask if they were ok. They replied almost by return (probably wait for a week here for an answer). Asked me to send copy of my invoice (Amazon invoice) & again by return said they would send out a new set, which were delivered from the States to me within 5 days. Unbelievable service. Would I get that here. Not a chance.
Good to see OP is going in himself, apart from the car, he should be demanding to know why he has to keep chasing them & why don't they answer the phone. My advice, get your car out of there now & to someone with a good reputation.
 
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tgl3

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I am in Coventry mate and the first place I would use is Mercland. There are also a couple of 'German specialists' (Autowerx near Mercedes Dealer and Dack Motor Group on Torrington Ave) which would have been my next choices if I wanted to keep it in Cov. Who has the car now? Sounds like it's Dack?? If I still had my STAR Diag I would have plugged it in for free for you
When my car is still drivable I will definitely use Mercland. I used them once and they're good! Your guess wasn't far out at all, its now with the DMG😀 I didn't expect they performed the job like this because they looks like a "decent German specialist" in the area.
 

bob6600

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When my car is still drivable I will definitely use Mercland. I used them once and they're good! Your guess wasn't far out at all, its now with the DMG😀 I didn't expect they performed the job like this because they looks like a "decent German specialist" in the area.
I have used Dack in the past and a family member still uses them for servicing. Mine was for the wife's car which required a new camshaft (common fault on PD150 engines). Work was completed and I was happy until 12 months later when I went to do an oil change. The sump bolt had been helicoiled and I didn't realise until I took the bolt out and half the thread came out with it! I bought a replacement sump and went back to them with my complaint. The place had changed ownership (same name) and the new manager offered to re-imburse me with credit for the sump cost (I didn't ask for labour costs as I did it). I thought this was very fair.

However, they seemed to be more 'VAG' specialists at the time but now advertise more towards Mercedes and BMW (and VAG). Your experience is not good and even though they have been good to me, a garage is only as good as their last job. They have the equipment but maybe not the knowledge. I imagine they are following what Xentry would suggest, which is costly for the customer. Their technician may not have seen this fault and so is fault finding and your expense.

Talk to the boss, can't remember his name now but he was quite reasonable with me. Lay out your concerns and ask for a cheaper labour rate. Then, get it shipped to Mercland and let them sort it out.
 
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tgl3

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I have used Dack in the past and a family member still uses them for servicing. Mine was for the wife's car which required a new camshaft (common fault on PD150 engines). Work was completed and I was happy until 12 months later when I went to do an oil change. The sump bolt had been helicoiled and I didn't realise until I took the bolt out and half the thread came out with it! I bought a replacement sump and went back to them with my complaint. The place had changed ownership (same name) and the new manager offered to re-imburse me with credit for the sump cost (I didn't ask for labour costs as I did it). I thought this was very fair.

However, they seemed to be more 'VAG' specialists at the time but now advertise more towards Mercedes and BMW (and VAG). Your experience is not good and even though they have been good to me, a garage is only as good as their last job. They have the equipment but maybe not the knowledge. I imagine they are following what Xentry would suggest, which is costly for the customer. Their technician may not have seen this fault and so is fault finding and your expense.

Talk to the boss, can't remember his name now but he was quite reasonable with me. Lay out your concerns and ask for a cheaper labour rate. Then, get it shipped to Mercland and let them sort it out.
I'll straight down to the garage on Monday and hope they can at least stay honest with me o_O
 
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tgl3

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UPDATE: Ha Ha Ha received this before setting off to the garage. Screenshot_20210322-135502_Chrome_mh1616421531015.jpg Screenshot_20210322-140325_Chrome_mh1616421848008.jpg Screenshot_20210322-140435_Chrome_mh1616421930104.jpg
 

markjay

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To be fair to the garage, modern Diesels in general, and BlueTEC engines in particular, can be a money pit if things go wrong... :(

That said, there's no excuse for not returning customers' phone calls, which is another matter.
 

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