Do we still have engine snobbery?

[SpikyMikey]

I had a very funny experience in a Matiz. Driving from Venice to the Dolomites for a bike race (Maratona). I was following a couple of friends who‘d seen sense and hired a Punto. The poor Matiz was literally foot to the floor the whole way in order to keep up. I couldn’t even have the aircon on as it was enough to make me drop back. I quite liked the little thing in the end, it didn’t give up. My friends said it was hilarious looking in their rear view mirror to see me in this tiny car all red faced from the heat!

From what I remember, you really had to work the nuts off them to maintain any kind of progress; a true city car really.
That said, it had a certain charm.

 

[tylerdurden]

Been in many comfy merc/BM/Audi taxi’s in Europe over the years. If the ride feels nice I always ask what model it is. Often is a regular 4pot model

 

[JHS]

There’s sure to be some of that on MBClub, but rare. I would consider that to be quite different to preference or taste, where there is no superior or inferior, just different.



…there aren’t many who can look down on a Mercedes-AMG ForFour AMG Sport Plus Black Series Night Edition Premium Plus 125 Navi facelift powered by Brabus.

I completely disagree with your obviously uninformed view.
Those that know will agree that the heroic Mercedes-Benz S205 C250d AMG line Premium Plus in white with illuminated door handles and OM651 2.2 diesel is far superior to any common or garden AMG.
I don't like to go on about it though because I don't want to hurt their feelings.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I completely disagree with your obviously uninformed view.
Those that know will agree that the heroic Mercedes-Benz S205 C250d AMG line Premium Plus in white with illuminated door handles and OM651 2.2 diesel is far superior to any common or garden AMG.
I don't like to go on about it though because I don't want to hurt their feelings.

In isolation the Mercedes-Benz S205 C250d AMG line Premium Plus is a formidable machine, but compared to the Mercedes-AMG ForFour AMG Sport Plus Black Series Night Edition Premium Plus 125 Navi facelift powered by Brabus it’s somewhat lacking.

For a start, it’s not a Night Edition nor is it a highly prized limited edition 125 model, and when the chips are down it has just eight words in it’s name compared a truly impressive eighteen words in Mercedes-AMG ForFour AMG Sport Plus Black Series Night Edition Premium Plus 125 Navi facelift powered by Brabus.

It even has one of these - reserved for only the most special of special editions - subtly positioned on the ashtray, both front wings, tailgate and glovebox.



Mine was previously owned by a McLaren F1 pit crew team member and he tuned the engine and suspension to F1 tolerances which makes it even more special.

 

[JHS]

In isolation the Mercedes-Benz S205 C250d AMG line Premium Plus is a formidable machine, but compared to the Mercedes-AMG ForFour AMG Sport Plus Black Series Night Edition Premium Plus 125 Navi facelift powered by Brabus it’s somewhat lacking.

For a start, it’s not a Night Edition nor is it a highly prized limited edition 125 model, and when the chips are down it has just eight words in it’s name compared a truly impressive eighteen words in Mercedes-AMG ForFour AMG Sport Plus Black Series Night Edition Premium Plus 125 Navi facelift powered by Brabus.

It even has one of these - reserved for only the most special of special editions - subtly positioned on the ashtray, both front wings, tailgate and glovebox.

View attachment 152986

Mine was previously owned by a McLaren F1 pit crew team member and he tuned the engine and suspension to F1 tolerances which makes it even more special.

I am going to find a dark room to have a cry! Damn you Bobby Dazzler, damn you!

 

[Londonscottish]

I must be the only one who likes the sound of triples. From a low down 'thrumble' to an ever so slightly strangulated scream as they rev out - I like!
I did think Autocar were talking tosh describing the smart triple as sounding like 'half a 911' - until I drove one. The lack of secondary vibes is the clincher though. The rocking couple at idle didn't bother me - and I've had passengers who actually enjoyed it.

I absolutely LOVE the sound of a triple. I grew hearing Kawasaki 2 stroke triples. More recently, the Triumph tripple is a thing of joy as it passes in the street.

When I had my bumper painted last year they loaned me a Polo with a triple. I just loved bombing around, listening to the engine note.

3s sound great as do 5s, 6's, 8s, 10s and 12s. Most fours sound average at best. Plus they are inherently imbalanced, something that becomes even more apparent when you turn the compression up to some crazy amount in order to detonate diesel.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Being a farm boy....the first vehicle I ever drove had 3 cylinders!!!!! A 2.5L Perkins AD3 3-cylinder diesel engine.....one of these!

 

[BTB 500]

Yep my tractor has a 3-cyl engine now, albeit a smaller Mitsubishi one.

 

[JHS]

Being a farm boy....the first vehicle I ever drove had 3 cylinders!!!!! A 2.5L Perkins AD3 3-cylinder diesel engine.....one of these!

View attachment 152990

Spent many years at Baginton as QA on the various machined components for the 135 and the bigger models. A great place to work as they paid Coventry tool room average hourly wages and believe me, Coventry tool rooms paid VERY well.

 

[SpikyMikey]

I absolutely LOVE the sound of a triple. I grew hearing Kawasaki 2 stroke triples. More recently, the Triumph tripple is a thing of joy as it passes in the street.

When I had my bumper painted last year they loaned me a Polo with a triple. I just loved bombing around, listening to the engine note.

3s sound great as do 5s, 6's, 8s, 10s and 12s. Most fours sound average at best. Plus they are inherently imbalanced, something that becomes even more apparent when you turn the compression up to some crazy amount in order to detonate diesel.

My old VW T4's sounded pretty good with their 5 pot TDi lumps - nice off-beat warble to them.

 

[Londonscottish]

....but there have been some very good-sounding 4s.

My Stage II Mini 1275 sounded amazing although that could have been something to do with the fact that it had siamesed exhaust ports for cylinders 2 and three. So the induction was playing in 4/4 time and the exhaust was like that of a triple and went three into two into one. Like some sort of accidental jazz sound track.

My flat 4 Alfas were all utter gems and I liked the Milano in the Spider I briefly had. But then again, as Ian Tyrell says, the Italians think of the internal combustion engine as being a wind instrument.

I also loved the Fiat/Lancia twin cams back in the day and the more recent TwinSparks. Cracking-sounding things

The engines in my 200SXs were just drone-fests in comparison. Shame they didn't ask an Italian to tune the exhaust manifolds and add a bit of induction back; they could have been so much better.

TBH they really just sounded like most petrol 4s do. You need to sprinkle a bit of aural magic on them to make them sound any good; whereas so many other configs come with a fantastic sound track out of the box.

 

[philnewmerc]

With the greatest of respect you haven’t answered the question. How is it better other than the noise maybe slightly sweeter? The newer 4 pot will ride just as well, will probably be better performance wiser, be more fuel efficient, lower tax, less insurance and get you to your destination probably in more comfort. So again why does it pain you to driver the smaller 4 pot when ultimately it maybe a better car?

My contrarian view:

If one is talking ice engines and one is a petrol head (and understands ice engineering) the only acceptable piston configuration is straight 6 or v12. Mr Jaguar knew this as did Mr Ferrari, Mr Lamborghini, and Mr Rolls (or was it Royce... Yes I know they went to V8 but that was a mistake and rolls and Royce were dead and gone). Everything else is a compromise based on packaging or cost, including the V8 (but which at least is mechanically balanced unlike the 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, V6, or V10) it just has an uneven firing order which gives the characteristic burble people like. (Unless it is a Ferrari in which case it sounds like two four cylinder engines and therefore has no appeal to me personally.)

Of course if one really likes cars but values efficiency and so on then a turbo 4 is excellent, I'd have one of those A45 chavtastic amgs (as long it was first inexplicably owned by a elderly GP). But then if efficiency and packaging and power is all that matters one should have zero objection to going EV and people in very ordinary cars really hate that idea because their 2.1 4 cylinder diesel chugger somehow has soul Well why not two cylinders or one?

 

[Smart320]

I just love the sound of a V8 , had 3 , a v8 petrol Discovery Mk1 ( with twin carbs ) , a Jag XJR V8 Supercharged and finally R172 SLK N/A V8 . All were brilliant in different ways but mainly they sounded fabulous. Keep hoping I might get another , would love to try a C63 ( 6.2 L ) however my wife keeps telling me in getting ( am ) too old at 77 .
Currently making do with a Toyota due for a change when we have moved house, anyway if no chance of another V8 I will have to move to an EV and at least get the acceleration and kill myself without any noise

 

[philnewmerc]

....but there have been some very good-sounding 4s.

My Stage II Mini 1275 sounded amazing although that could have been something to do with the fact that it had siamesed exhaust ports for cylinders 2 and three. So the induction was playing in 4/4 time and the exhaust was like that of a triple and went three into two into one. Like some sort of accidental jazz sound track.

My flat 4 Alfas were all utter gems and I liked the Milano in the Spider I briefly had. But then again, as Ian Tyrell says, the Italians think of the internal combustion engine as being a wind instrument.

I also loved the Fiat/Lancia twin cams back in the day and the more recent TwinSparks. Cracking-sounding things

The engines in my 200SXs were just drone-fests in comparison. Shame they didn't ask an Italian to tune the exhaust manifolds and add a bit of induction back; they could have been so much better.

TBH they really just sounded like most petrol 4s do. You need to sprinkle a bit of aural magic on them to make them sound any good; whereas so many other configs come with a fantastic sound track out of the box.

Totally agree on Italian petrol 4s... All superb and have 'soul'

 

[ALFAitalia]

Not all... the latest 2.0 in its various guises in the ALFA Giulia is a bit of a soulless thing even if the Veloce 280 horse version its pretty quick to 60 at about 5.2 s.

 

[ChrisHGTV]

I completely disagree with your obviously uninformed view.
Those that know will agree that the heroic Mercedes-Benz S205 C250d AMG line Premium Plus in white with illuminated door handles and OM651 2.2 diesel is far superior to any common or garden AMG.
I don't like to go on about it though because I don't want to hurt their feelings.

I read that NASA used a single OM651 to power their launch crawler transporter. In 220 guise of course. They were fearful the torque of the 250 would alter the Earths spin and **** up the rockets trajectory.

 

[Phil1968]

I must be the only one who likes the sound of triples. From a low down 'thrumble' to an ever so slightly strangulated scream as they rev out - I like!
I did think Autocar were talking tosh describing the smart triple as sounding like 'half a 911' - until I drove one. The lack of secondary vibes is the clincher though. The rocking couple at idle didn't bother me - and I've had passengers who actually enjoyed it.

Me too, I've had a Triumph Speed Triple in the past. And their Rocket 3 on fruity pipes is a joy to behold. And driven a Smart ForTwo as well, they do sound great when wound on, very similar sound to the Speed Triple I had, like a six cylinder. Which is basically what a triple is with it's crank phasing, a six cylinder missing 3 cylinders, so they basically sound like a (rougher sounding) six. I think Toyota tuned out the tripleness from my other half's IQ 1.0 3-pot though, at no point does it sound much like a triple, which is a shame.

 

[SpikyMikey]

I read that NASA used a single OM651 to power their launch crawler transporter. In 220 guise of course. They were fearful the torque of the 250 would alter the Earths spin and **** up the rockets trajectory.

It's a little known fact that Nasa
saved the 250 version to use as an upgrade to the Aerojet Rocketdyne RS-25 Shuttle main engines.

 

[ChrisHGTV]

It's a little known fact that Nasa
saved the 250 version to use as an upgrade to the Aerojet Rocketdyne RS-25 Shuttle main engines.

They also used Ian Gillian’s lungs to provide forced induction.

 

[Londonscottish]

Totally agree on Italian petrol 4s... All superb and have 'soul'

It's funny isn't it? The petrol 4 pot in my wife's old Clio sounded rough as **** if you took it over 4k. Whereas the ancient Fire engine in her Fiat 500 sings away happily as you bounce the valves off the bonnet. It's not an Alfa-like sound but at least they went to effort of making sure it didn't sound coarse.