DVLA charging for a whole months tax...

[chic0821]

I sorn my S63 over the winter (near 600bhp, rear wheel drive, summer tyres, icy roads) nah. Anyway sorned on the last day of the month as DVLA has it in black & white, if you transgress into the next month, even for an hour you have to pay a whole months tax. Same when re taxing, you have to wait till the first day of the month at the earliest. Can't see what's so hard to understand

 

[TeddyRuxpin]

I sorn my S63 over the winter (near 600bhp, rear wheel drive, summer tyres, icy roads) nah. Anyway sorned on the last day of the month as DVLA has it in black & white, if you transgress into the next month, even for an hour you have to pay a whole months tax. Same when re taxing, you have to wait till the first day of the month at the earliest. Can't see what's so hard to understand

Nice car! I already know and have stated this in the title and and original post of the thread. Can’t see what’s so hard to understand…

I think I’m done with the thread as I have a feeling the DVLA Defenders are going to be all British about ‘the rules’ instead of what’s right and moral, and completely overlook the fact that they stole my money and had no intention of giving it back (minus a month or otherwise), and made me waste hours upon hours to do so. Remember that I have sacrificed using my car for a month when I actually needed it, yet they had my money for a month and had no intention of refunding it, even though the car was declared SORN. They didn’t even cancel the direct debit.

But I will let people know if/when the DVLA raise an issue for sure.

For anybody worried that I had three whole days of ‘free tax’, the car has been sat there for months unused, so I paid my fare share of tax while it sat there doing nothing. Of course the vehicle tax rate has been increased without warning this month, up around 20% since when I bought the car 4-5 years ago.

As an aside, this all started when I saw a webpage from my insurer (esure, who have also raised their prices by 50%) saying that they allow customers to pause their car insurance. So I thought great, declared car sorn and called them up to pause the insurance, do save money. It turns out they ‘don’t offer that service anymore’ and the DVLA took the full amount in any case. So I’ve been unable to use the car and it’s actually cost me more than I would have paid anyway. I need to look into whether I should cancel my car insurance fully or if premiums will rise more when I reapply for car insurance than I will have saved. But the car is just sat there, as much as I’d love to drive it.

And no, I didn’t and won’t cash the cheque. I am sure they will have cancelled it anyway.

 

[st13phil]

Actually yes - have done for over 30 years. That's how I know how much of an administrative issue it would cause and how much more it would cost.

OK, I'll admit that I haven't cut code as the primary function of my role for around 20 years, but I still fail to see how pro-rating the cost of the start and end periods either creates an admin issue or adds to cost. I do see how it would reduce revenues.

 

[Germgh0st]

OK, I'll admit that I haven't cut code as the primary function of my role for around 20 years, but I still fail to see how pro-rating the cost of the start and end periods either creates an admin issue or adds to cost. I do see how it would reduce revenues.

Regardless of how much you can automate, new system functionality always leads to extra admin burden - even if it's just people maintaining it. There would also be extra burden on the system as far as processing is concerned - calculating partial refunds, issuing partial refunds (extra bank charges possibly), keeping track of them will require extra database space. So the cost of the required infrastructure to support the extra processing and database storage will also go up. There's probably more than I can't think of right now, like development and support cost. Plus, as you said, it will reduce revenues so more money will need to be raised to support the existing infrastructure. Everything costs money, and those costs will need to be recovered.

 

[markjay]

I do see sometimes clamped cars with a notice saying that the VED hasnt been paid, so the DVLA do use enforcement (via ANPR-equipped vans, presumably), but I don't know if they do this also in rural areas or just inside cities etc.

Also, the OP car's won't be 'untaxed' as such, instead it would potentially be showing as owing some historic payment, so not sure if the DVLA would actually clamp a car in these circumstances.

Another point is that in the very olden days (when you could actually sell a car with the tax), if you let it lapse and you then paid later, the new tax would simply start from when you bought the tax disc, and no one was chasing you for the historic period when the car was untaxed (and un-SORNed). Not sure what will happen today if you forget to pay the tax and then paid it (say) three months later - would the DVLA chase you for the period that the car was untaxed?

 

[st13phil]

Regardless of how much you can automate, new system functionality always leads to extra admin burden - even if it's just people maintaining it. There would also be extra burden on the system as far as processing is concerned - calculating partial refunds, issuing partial refunds (extra bank charges possibly), keeping track of them will require extra database space. So the cost of the required infrastructure to support the extra processing and database storage will also go up. There's probably more than I can't think of right now, like development and support cost. Plus, as you said, it will reduce revenues so more money will need to be raised to support the existing infrastructure. Everything costs money, and those costs will need to be recovered.

The practice of partial period pro-rata charging is well-established and understood in the Telco and Utilities sectors and their billing systems (which I haven't personally worked on, but do have significant knowledge of) are not burdened by it. Odd that the only organisations that find it difficult are those run by the State.

In terms of the VED system, the only additional partial refunds would be for disposals part way through the last month of the licence period, and that would only be if the insistence upon calendar month end expiry was maintained.

The one point I will agree with is that any change has a cost associated with it which is why when the tax disc was eliminated and the move to continuous licencing was made it should have been introduced then. Instead, someone decided that it was an opportunity to increase revenue so we have the system we do which is both inequitable and illogical.

 

[st13phil]

Not sure what will happen today if you forget to pay the tax and then paid it (say) three months later - would the DVLA chase you for the period that the car was untaxed?

Yes - under the Continuous Licencing regime, unless the vehicle was SORN'd for the period it wasn't licenced.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

OK, I'll admit that I haven't cut code as the primary function of my role for around 20 years, but I still fail to see how pro-rating the cost of the start and end periods either creates an admin issue or adds to cost. I do see how it would reduce revenues.

And that’s probably a factor behind why it hasn’t changed - the DVLA need to raise a certain amount of revenue to balance the books and if they make a change to prorate charges to enable per day, per hour, per minute, or per second charging, then they’ll need to increase the underlying VED rate. Alternatively it will need to be raised through a different form of taxation.

Great news for people who buy, sell and SORN regularly, but bad news for those who do it once in a blue moon. On this occasion I suspect changing from the current arrangement will cause more hassle for more people than it’s worth, as most people know how it works, and most of those who don’t know don’t care.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

completely overlook the fact that they stole my money and had no intention of giving it back (minus a month or otherwise), and made me waste hours upon hours to do so. Remember that I have sacrificed using my car for a month when I actually needed it,

For anybody worried that I had three whole days of ‘free tax’, the car has been sat there for months unused, so I paid my fare share of tax while it sat there doing nothing. Of course the vehicle tax rate has been increased without warning this month, up around 20% since when I bought the car 4-5 years ago.

I suspect you feel frustrated by the whole affair but ultimately, what you’re describing is not how VED and tax works.

You pay VED for the ability to drive your car on the road, not because you have actually driven on the road in the period. As a result whether your car moved or not, if you wanted the option to use it on the road for the three months or three days you mention, then unfortunately VED is due.

And having paid VED for the last three months - and not used it during that time - doesn’t entitle you to decide not to pay in future. I can’t legally (or morally) choose to not declare some or all of my income because I feel that I’ve paid plenty of income tax in the past.

And the DVLA haven’t stolen money from you, they used the established mechanism which you signed-up to in order to charge you for something. I’m sure they’d return the 5 months prorated amount, for them not to would be down to an error or a deliberate ploy which seems unlikely.

You mentioned that you needed to use your car in July but now can’t - why did you declare it as SORN if you really needed to start using your car again? Maybe I’m missing something. You can’t reasonably hold the DVLA accountable for you choosing to SORN a car you needed to use.

VED rates weren’t increased this month without warning. They are announced as part of the Budget but your first 6-monthly renewal since the budget happens to be this month. VED rates change often and are communicated through the budget. You can find out more here:

Vehicle Excise Duty rates for cars, vans and motorcycles from April 2023

www.gov.uk

I hope it all gets sorted without too much more hassle

 

[Germgh0st]

Just out of interest:

DVLA launches new online account for motorists

DVLA are asking motorists to test a new service that allows them to view their driving licence and vehicle details in one place.

www.gov.uk

 

[st13phil]

Just out of interest:

DVLA launches new online account for motorists

DVLA are asking motorists to test a new service that allows them to view their driving licence and vehicle details in one place.

www.gov.uk

Thanks for that. I've just registered, added vehicles, and provided feedback.

My views: It's helpful to have all Driver and Vehicle details located in one place and the site is clear and well laid out. The only negative is that when adding vehicles it would have been good to have been presented with a list of vehicles registered to the account holder and/or the account holder's address as that would allow users to instantly identify any erroneous association of vehicles with themselves.