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E estate v Audi A6 avant... what do you think?

Aterrasse

Active Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2011
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114
Car
W212 - E-Estate 220CDI Bluefficiency
Dear All,

My wife and I have decided to look into estate cars for a replacement to our ML which is now already 4 years' old.

Although my immediate instinct would be to go for the E220 CDI estate, I was recently recommended to look into the Audi A6 Avant (2.0 TDI) as well.

Look and space are important. But what about reliability, handling, running costs and dealership service?

For anyone who has experienced either of even both, I would greatly value your opinion on the subject.

Cheers

Alex
 
Are we talking about an S212?
 
Hi Alex, I can speak from the A6 perspective as for the next 8 days I'm still running one!

If you are considering a 2.0 TDI, make sure it is a facelift (late 2008) onwards car which has 170bhp. The earlier 140 version is too lost in such a big car. V6 TDIs are lovely and smooth, but do cost more on fuel. I have a 2.7 TDI which I love and returns 40mpg on a run.

I've had mine 4 years and covered 93000 miles in it and it's been flawless. Not sure if I've been lucky or whether they are all as good as mine has been, but from reliability/durability perspective no complaints. Servicing has been reasonable on cost and due to the miles covered my car has required garage visits every 18-19000 miles (so called longlife servicing).

They are good quality cars and well spec'd as standard. S Lines look the best but do have choppy ride - I am sure an E Class will wipe the floor with it in this aspect. E Class also has a bigger boot in estate form, but the A6 is hardly small in this respect!
 
I have a 56 plate E320 Sport Estate, with 78k on the clock.
Quite frankly, its the best 'drivers' car I have ever had, period.
Masses of room, bullet proof build quality, and under the hood, looks like new still.

Ok, my overall mpg @30ish isnt brill, but get hold of a good 220 and you could add 10/15 more i'd think.

Great cars.
 
I've had both - older ones admittedly
A6 - totally trouble free
E - don't mention the rust & useless main dealers

E - definately bigger & puts a smile on your face
A6 - excellent fit & finish - almost dull to own!
 
If you're looking to replace a car that is 4 years old I presume it will be a new one?

The new A6 is nice looking but the 2.0tdi is not available in AWD, and Audi has a serious issue with their cars that are FWD, for some reason they just can't get traction on anything but a completely dry road, and with their autos it is almost dangerous.
I have owned around 15 Audis over the last 15 years, from a 1.9tdi A4 through to S4 Avants and my last one was a 3.2fsi Quattro A6 avant, which was actually my favourite of the lot.

I did actually really like the A6, and hear the new one is quite a bit better, it was pretty comfy in SE guise and the MMI system was pretty good etc. but it is not a Mercedes, the Mercedes is on a whole different level, not only for driver comfort but also enjoyment, the A6 is seriously, seriously dull.

I'm now at 100k miles in my E Class estate and really should swap it, however, I now wouldn't want anything other than a new E Class, and I can't justify the cost to change at the moment.
I wouldn't swap my 5 year old E320cdi for a brand new A6 even if it was a free swap.
 
If you're looking to replace a car that is 4 years old I presume it will be a new one?

The new A6 is nice looking but the 2.0tdi is not available in AWD, and Audi has a serious issue with their cars that are FWD, for some reason they just can't get traction on anything but a completely dry road, and with their autos it is almost dangerous.
I have owned around 15 Audis over the last 15 years, from a 1.9tdi A4 through to S4 Avants and my last one was a 3.2fsi Quattro A6 avant, which was actually my favourite of the lot.

I did actually really like the A6, and hear the new one is quite a bit better, it was pretty comfy in SE guise and the MMI system was pretty good etc. but it is not a Mercedes, the Mercedes is on a whole different level, not only for driver comfort but also enjoyment, the A6 is seriously, seriously dull.

I'm now at 100k miles in my E Class estate and really should swap it, however, I now wouldn't want anything other than a new E Class, and I can't justify the cost to change at the moment.
I wouldn't swap my 5 year old E320cdi for a brand new A6 even if it was a free swap.

Dear All,

Thank you for your good comments and advice.

To answer your question gIzzE, yes the plan is to buy a new car. My ML has only 23k on the clock but frankly it is pain to manoeuvre in town and the consumption is generally high. Also I have a developed an aversion to paying a £450 road tax every year... that simply puts me in a bad mood!

Strangely, I feel slightly happier to know that most of the comments thus far seem to concur to say that the E estate is a better car to own :)

Alex
 
My Dad has an '07 A6 2.0 TDi saloon and I own a 2005 E320 CDi estate.

The E-Class wins in every department and by quite a margin in my (admittedly biased) opinion.

The ride in my car is smoother, the soundproofing is better, the interior in my car feels like a £40k car whereas my Dads feels like a well-specced Passat.

He's had the car for about 18 months and has had no real major issues, except a couple of electrical niggles....

I've had no niggles of any kind, mechanical or otherwise.
 
My Dad has an '07 A6 2.0 TDi saloon and I own a 2005 E320 CDi estate.

The E-Class wins in every department and by quite a margin in my (admittedly biased) opinion.

The ride in my car is smoother, the soundproofing is better, the interior in my car feels like a £40k car whereas my Dads feels like a well-specced Passat.

He's had the car for about 18 months and has had no real major issues, except a couple of electrical niggles....

I've had no niggles of any kind, mechanical or otherwise.


Gents: 4 / 2 for the Mercedes so far...

Sweetpea: no, I did not check on the Audi Forum (in fact I completely occulted the fact that there may be one). Perhaps I should have a look too.

Alex
 
Audi owners get very, very defensive about their marque, they are an extremely blinkered crowd for the most part.
But then who wants to hear they have bought a boring car for £40,000! ;)
 
Audi owners get very, very defensive about their marque, they are an extremely blinkered crowd for the most part.
But then who wants to hear they have bought a boring car for £40,000! ;)

In your humble opinion!
 
In your humble opinion!


If you mean when I say...

Audi owners get very, very defensive about their marque, they are an extremely blinkered crowd for the most part.

Then no that is not imho, that is fact, I have been on car forums for Mercedes, Audi and BMW along with others for the last 15 years and Audi owners are extremely blinkered when it comes to other marques, and so are Mercedes owners too, but then once you have had a Merc I can sort of see why nothing else appeals in the same way.
And I did say most of them and not all.

If you mean when I say.....

But then who wants to hear they have bought a boring car for £40,000! ;)

Then I stick by that 100%.
Audi have made 2 cars in the last 20 years that really are great drivers cars, the B7 RS4 and the R8, the rest are mearly average at best with terrible driving dynamics and sold on looks and interiors.
The only other one that comes close is the latest S4, the one before that was truly horrendous on every single level, but this one feels pretty good without the usual Audi trait of having the engine sat in front of the front axle.
 
I like Audi's and so does Mrs C220 but I just couldn't live with the suspension in anything remotely sporty.

Standard spec is pretty sparse too, so you're obliges to raid the options lists for item that often appear as standard on a Mercedes.

We chose the C Class on value for money, ride and specification. Plus the Audi dealer simply didn't have time to talk to us and told us to come back another day!
 
Fair enough gIzzE, I certainly have no experience of Audi forums so can't speak from that perspective. My view on forums has always been cautious as I would expect a blinkered view on every forum for that marque. Nature of the beast in my book.

I can however speak from a reasonably significant ownership experience of both marques. My last 4 cars have been VW Passat > W208 230k > W211 220 AG > A6 2.7. I find it quite amusing that folk still consider Audis as badged up VWs with terrible dynamics. Maybe I don't drive my cars hard enough to show these issues up, but I drive on the roads of the UK not tracks! I can't help feeling that the opinions of many around cars like Audis is pedaled by motoring journalists (who drive them to the extreme) and then are jumped on my the vast majority of armchair pundits who have little or no experience of using these cars.

I'm not here to defend Audi. Hell if I was that brand loyal I wouldn't be coming back to MB next week. But in the everyday world of hum drum motorway commutes, traffic jams, shopping and school runs and Sunday morning car washing these cars have as much to offer as any other premium brand offering. There are certainly differences and advantages/disadvantages to Merc V Audi V any other brand, but you pays your monies and takes your choice.

Certainly from a quality perspective I hope the w204 is going to be better than the W208 and W211 I previously ran. From this perspective the A6 I've run over the last 4 years has wiped the floor with the brand that claims to be engineered to perfection.

All in my humble opinion of course!
 
The interior quality on the new A6 Avant is very good.

It also looks very elegant and contemporary, and the exterior styling doesn't try as hard as the 212 E class estate.

No idea how either drives, as have not driven either car.
 
I'm not talking about driving on a track or anything, I am talking about getting the basics right.

If I take my old S4 avant as an example, and many may want to just switch off here as it is probably a bit boring, but here goes.

I owned a couple of Audis and then bought a BMW, however I was an Audi owner, I was involved on all the forums and missed the Audi ownership, so I went and bought another Audi after 12 months with the BMW.
However, the first one I couldn't get on with, did nothing particularly wrong, just didn't excite. So after 6 months I upgraded, again, missing something, so upgraded.....and upgraded....and upgraded......and then.....realised that it was the fact that these were all Audis and compared to the BMW they were dull.
So I went from a 3.0i A4 to another 320d sport touring and once again I had a car that I really enjoyed driving everyday, and a car that made me smile sitting at the speed limits, you didn't have to be driving like you're on a track to enjoy it and appreciate the balance and handling, the way it held a line on the road and just went where you pointed it was something none of the Audis could do.

So after a around 5 years with BMWs I decided I wanted to get rid of my 535d sport touring and the M3 CSL and get something that would do both jobs, neither as well as either, but something I could enjoy everyday.
I bought a 2005 S4 avant at 18 months old.

Looked nice....
s4%20rear%201024.jpg


Interior was nice.....
s4%20interior%20night%2025.jpg


And to be honest that is where the good points ended.

I met the seller at Newbury and drove back to Norwich, and even before I had got home and I was in Friday afternoon motorway crawl traffic, I realised I had made a massive mistake, the new car excitement turned to that feeling you get in your stomach when you know you have made a big mistake.

Firstly, the pedals in Audis are offset, but this is not an issue at all, BMWs are too as are many marques, the real issue is the pedal height, or heights.
They are all different!!!
The gas pedal is higher than the brake, the clutch is higher than the gas.
And to make it worse the gas pedal is the old style and not hinged from the floor so you have to have your foot so your toes are nearly touching your shins!
My seating position was completely wrong.
If you sit now and and try and touch your chins with you toes you will get an idea, after a while you get cramp. On a few occasions I had to pull over and get out and walk it off.
Obviously an Auto makes this less of an issue as you only have to try and get a compromise between gas and brake, not the clutch as well.
Clarkson mentioned this and said that if it hadn't have been for the stupid pedal heights he would have bought an S4 cab.


The clutch is off to the right slightly on RHD cars, which in itself is fine, but then the foot rest is also right next to it as the transmission tunnel is also over to the right, so your foot gets caught on the footrest when you press the clutch, to get round this you have to twist from your knee to your foot left to miss the footrest and at the same twist from your hip to your knee right to as the pedals are offset.
All very strange and something you do get used to, but just a complete lack of thought when changing the cars to RHD.

When people said 'The problem with Audis is they stick their engines over the front axle!' I thought they were joking, not so!!!
The S4 have a big 4.2 V8 engine and it was in front of the front axle!!!!
You had to fight it around every corner, the understeer was so bad you could never take advantage of the Quattro, you had to slow up well before the AWD had any benefit.
I tried to remedy this will thicker rear anti roll bars etc. and that did help a little, but after being in BMWs it was atrocious!

Gearing - This was the main reason I got rid of the car.
The gearing was really short on the S4, well in manual guise anyway.
I later found out it was to make sure the 0-60 times were kept under 6 seconds, however it ruined the car. 1st to 2nd was a joke, and made any sort of town or traffic work a complete nightmare.
You were just constantly swapping cogs.
Also, this was a big 4 litre V8, the engine could have got to 100mph with 2 gears.
But the final drive on the manual meant that at 8-mph it was doing 4000rpm, compared with 2500rpm on the auto.
So sit at 80mph all day and you see 18mpg in the manual and around 26mpg in the auto.
I could get better consumtion round town than on the motorway, and believe me this was a motorway mile muncher and nothing more than that.



Now, the A6 had all the above faults regarding handling etc. but it was a different car and you didn't expect anything from it, so you just accepted, it was no better in any area apart from the fact it was an auto, but I lived with it.
I modified the gas pedal so it sat only 2" lower than the brake instead of 3.2" and that helped and I bought some sport seats for mine as the SE seats were just horrific, and then it was a pretty nice car.

It looked great imho, the interior was nice if a little hollow feeling, but I think that was more the bus like steering wheel Audi seem to love than anything else, and the 3.2 petrol did between 24 and 32mpg.

However, jump from the A6 into the E Class and you then appreciate all the things you take for granted on a Merc, and these things are things that should be taken for granted, just that not all marques bother as much as Mercedes do about the basics.


so, sorry for the ramble but I am talking from my experience with them and not listening to the press, but to be fair now I have been back to Audi and come away again I do thing the press hit the nail on the head when it comes to Audi most of the time.

To me Audi owners buy the car because of the badge*, BMW owners tend to buy the car despite the badge and Merc owners tend to keep buying Mercs because they know they are just very, very good cars.




*I include myself in that btw, I bought the A6 avant as it is a nothing car, it doesn't offend anyone and you can turn up anywhere in it and it doesn't really say anything.
 
Interesting thread - surprisingly timely.

We're about to swap the CLS (sob sob) for an E Estate. I consider the A6, C Class, BMW 5 Series Estate as well.

Drove all of them.

E Class - surprisingly agile, didn't feel huge, but it's enormous inside and an incredible ride (should add it had airmatic - which makes a difference).

A6 - nice car, but didn't feel the value. price seemed to be out of proportion with the car.

C Class - lovely car - really nice. However would only want one in 63 form as it's a total hoot in that regard. Otherwise with the options we're going for the E makes more sense fiscally.

5 series - expensive ! Really expensive - if you do like for like with an E and look to have a reasonable number of options - E wins. In my spec the 5 series came out nearly 7k more. Plus I think it's very ugly.

E wins - new one to be ordered shortly, for 12 plate....
 
The interior quality on the new A6 Avant is very good.

It also looks very elegant and contemporary, and the exterior styling doesn't try as hard as the 212 E class estate.

No idea how either drives, as have not driven either car.


The styling is brilliant, the interior is as good as it gets imho.
If it drives better than previous models they may be onto a winner, but I doubt they will.
The poached a load of BMW designers and engineers when they built the A5, they were going to make it sporty, however after doing all that Audi decided to change the chassis and made it understeer again "as that is what the Audi customer knows, likes and expects."
Their words.

When I was on a table at a beer festival with the heads of Porsche and Mercedes a few years back two of the senior guys there had come from Audi, we were talking about who Mercedes saw their competition as, and then we asked the Audi guys, their answer surprised me.
They said that the customer probably saw the competition to be BMW, however Audi saw the competition as Volvo, for the VW customer who was moving up the ranks and wanted 'practical and safe'.
 

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