mobeyone
MB Enthusiast
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- E280 S211
Maybe video it too and post on here?
E320 cdi Really annoying problem - please help anyone!!
- Thread starter MACHBUFFET
- Start date
MACHBUFFET
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- Mar 15, 2009
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- X164 GL 350cdi Blue Efficiency
Hi fellas
I'm located in Northern Ireland, which limits somewhat my catchment area. There are three indys that I knew of here and they've all been a dead end. First one ended up suggesting that we try an engine oil flush and new oil - still don't know what that would have achieved.
Second one kept referring to the motor that "operates the EGR valve" I enquired if he meant the inlet port motor operating the inlet flaps? No, No - he was certain that motor operates the EGR ,(he was pointing to the motor that sits under the turbo / manifold seal) so that was a very confusing drive back home.
Third guy thought it might be the exhaust back pressure sensor and one sensor and £60 inc fitting later, still doing it and now he's basically said he'd done all he can.
I just can't believe that the local expertise weren't even inclined to conduct a proper investigattion - last bloke suggested that I just keep driving it until it gets so bad, it throws up a code. I like to take good care of my cars and that's just not an option.
Thanks Mobeyone, I'm having trouble uploading both photos and videos - do I need to re format?
By the way, did you ever put the Liqui Moly through?
Thanks to all
Barry
I'm located in Northern Ireland, which limits somewhat my catchment area. There are three indys that I knew of here and they've all been a dead end. First one ended up suggesting that we try an engine oil flush and new oil - still don't know what that would have achieved.
Second one kept referring to the motor that "operates the EGR valve" I enquired if he meant the inlet port motor operating the inlet flaps? No, No - he was certain that motor operates the EGR ,(he was pointing to the motor that sits under the turbo / manifold seal) so that was a very confusing drive back home.
Third guy thought it might be the exhaust back pressure sensor and one sensor and £60 inc fitting later, still doing it and now he's basically said he'd done all he can.
I just can't believe that the local expertise weren't even inclined to conduct a proper investigattion - last bloke suggested that I just keep driving it until it gets so bad, it throws up a code. I like to take good care of my cars and that's just not an option.
Thanks Mobeyone, I'm having trouble uploading both photos and videos - do I need to re format?
By the way, did you ever put the Liqui Moly through?
Thanks to all
Barry
Last edited:
Dieselman
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- Peugeot 403 Convertible
It sounds like an injector imbalance problem at low delivery, but the EGR motor suggestion is a good one.
These are all plausible ideas.
Oil flush to release any sticky rings causing compression imbalance, EGR motor to ensure smooth and accurate operation of the valve, run it till it gets worse to see if it throws a code.
It can't be intake or exhaust restriction.
mobeyone
MB Enthusiast
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- Apr 23, 2005
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- E280 S211
My brother had a manual a4 tdi with exactly the same symptoms. Fine when driving but he had this misfire once warm which was not throwing any codes up. His cat was also mentioned.
Combination of egr and injectors were the culprit but the v6 has an electronic egr and there's not much info about on this forum wise.
Combination of egr and injectors were the culprit but the v6 has an electronic egr and there's not much info about on this forum wise.
MACHBUFFET
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- X164 GL 350cdi Blue Efficiency
Quick update.
Finally bit the bullet and went to see the local MB Dealership.
Senior teccy suggested that the vehicle should have its software fully updated before any further troubleshooting, so I've booked it in next Tuesday.
Because the fault is so closely related to engine temperature, I'm going to drop it over the day before, so it's nice and cold and then drop back first thing in the morning to show them exactly what happens myself.
I feel a stout rogering coming on - I don't mind though, if it just sorts this out once and for all.
Teccy did say though that the Torque converter clutch would do it at all temps and all times, so it's unlikely to be that.
By the way
Being mid to late 2006 V6 - I'm not in the Valeo ballpark, am I??
Thanks all
I'll keep you updated.
Finally bit the bullet and went to see the local MB Dealership.
Senior teccy suggested that the vehicle should have its software fully updated before any further troubleshooting, so I've booked it in next Tuesday.
Because the fault is so closely related to engine temperature, I'm going to drop it over the day before, so it's nice and cold and then drop back first thing in the morning to show them exactly what happens myself.
I feel a stout rogering coming on - I don't mind though, if it just sorts this out once and for all.
Teccy did say though that the Torque converter clutch would do it at all temps and all times, so it's unlikely to be that.
By the way
Being mid to late 2006 V6 - I'm not in the Valeo ballpark, am I??
Thanks all
I'll keep you updated.
mobeyone
MB Enthusiast
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Shouldn't be, I dont remember reading about facelifts with this problem.
Keep us posted.
Keep us posted.
MACHBUFFET
Member
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- X164 GL 350cdi Blue Efficiency
At last - I'm one happy man!!
Problem sorted and car runs like a new car - absolutely chuffed.
I had arranged to take it to the dealership on Tuesday for software upgrade/update and analysis, but in order to show the problem as described, I parked it up the night before and came back the next morning to meet with the MB Technician.
I fired it up, let it warm a bit to 50deg and she performed right on cue - Tech took her away and got to work.
I received a call early afternoon to say the car was sorted and ready for collection.
Had a chat with Tech and he talked me through the findings and action taken.
Hooked up to STAR during the warmup period and NO FAULTS FOUND!!
Smooth Running test carried out.
However, experienced eye of the Tech noticed that injectors 2 and 5 weren't quite singing with the choir. Further investigation revealed that the injectors had de-tuned from the ECU and weren't in the memory. They re-programed all six injectors into the memory.
A compression check was carried out as a precaution and chuffed to see they're practically as they were from new.
Then they carried out a "Teach in Mean Value Adaption", whatever that is.
Then they programmed in the following:-
HFM Compensation
Air Filter Replacement (I replaced filters but apparently you must tell the car so it can adapt to the new airflow!!)
Throttle Stop Learning
Teach in Quality Values
Re-Programmed Gearbox
As part of his analysis, the Tech tested the EGR valve, which operated satisfactorily. However, something wasn't adding up he said, so he removed the EGR pipe and what do you know? It was over half blocked with gunk. He cleaned this out completely and re-assembled.
The net result is that the car is completely sorted and running better than ever. Also worthy of note is an earlier problem I reported in a different thread that my car had a tapping sound that appeared to come from the top of the engine (quite common judging by the responses I received) This tapping has quitened down significantly and is reduced by over 60% in my estimation and you really have to listen out for it.
Overall, the Tech met with me in the morning, spent some time with me to get to know exactly what the problem was, took the car and did all of the work detailed above. They charged me the fee for the software update - £100 !!!!
I had visited three Indys and not one could help. They hooked it up to STAR and because no fault found, they couldn't take it any further. Some of the suggestions ranged from swapping the turbo, replacing the inlet port motor, injectors, keep driving until it throws up a fault and so on. One replaced the exhaust back pressure sensor to no avail. Please don't think I'm having a pop at the Indy's - I'm definitely not. When I lived in England I had some fantastic experiences dealing with the then local specialists, but since moving to NI, it's not anything to write home about. Not one of the three was prepared to take the time to even try to analyse, nor suggest leaving the car cold to try and replicate the problem. Over all, not confidence inspiring.
MB couldn't do enough, spent time gathering all of the info and chatting to customer. Just under £150 wasted across trips to three different indys - MB sort in for £100 + VAT.
The car runs beautifully now and my only regret is that I didn't go straight to MB in the first instance.
Thanks very much to everyone who took the time to help me by answering my posts and making some great suggestions. Also, I hope that my experience and findings will be of some use to other members in their troubles.
PS - Anyone want to buy a fully servicable Exhaust Back Pressure Sensor, now surplus to requirements??
Problem sorted and car runs like a new car - absolutely chuffed.
I had arranged to take it to the dealership on Tuesday for software upgrade/update and analysis, but in order to show the problem as described, I parked it up the night before and came back the next morning to meet with the MB Technician.
I fired it up, let it warm a bit to 50deg and she performed right on cue - Tech took her away and got to work.
I received a call early afternoon to say the car was sorted and ready for collection.
Had a chat with Tech and he talked me through the findings and action taken.
Hooked up to STAR during the warmup period and NO FAULTS FOUND!!
Smooth Running test carried out.
However, experienced eye of the Tech noticed that injectors 2 and 5 weren't quite singing with the choir. Further investigation revealed that the injectors had de-tuned from the ECU and weren't in the memory. They re-programed all six injectors into the memory.
A compression check was carried out as a precaution and chuffed to see they're practically as they were from new.
Then they carried out a "Teach in Mean Value Adaption", whatever that is.
Then they programmed in the following:-
HFM Compensation
Air Filter Replacement (I replaced filters but apparently you must tell the car so it can adapt to the new airflow!!)
Throttle Stop Learning
Teach in Quality Values
Re-Programmed Gearbox
As part of his analysis, the Tech tested the EGR valve, which operated satisfactorily. However, something wasn't adding up he said, so he removed the EGR pipe and what do you know? It was over half blocked with gunk. He cleaned this out completely and re-assembled.
The net result is that the car is completely sorted and running better than ever. Also worthy of note is an earlier problem I reported in a different thread that my car had a tapping sound that appeared to come from the top of the engine (quite common judging by the responses I received) This tapping has quitened down significantly and is reduced by over 60% in my estimation and you really have to listen out for it.
Overall, the Tech met with me in the morning, spent some time with me to get to know exactly what the problem was, took the car and did all of the work detailed above. They charged me the fee for the software update - £100 !!!!
I had visited three Indys and not one could help. They hooked it up to STAR and because no fault found, they couldn't take it any further. Some of the suggestions ranged from swapping the turbo, replacing the inlet port motor, injectors, keep driving until it throws up a fault and so on. One replaced the exhaust back pressure sensor to no avail. Please don't think I'm having a pop at the Indy's - I'm definitely not. When I lived in England I had some fantastic experiences dealing with the then local specialists, but since moving to NI, it's not anything to write home about. Not one of the three was prepared to take the time to even try to analyse, nor suggest leaving the car cold to try and replicate the problem. Over all, not confidence inspiring.
MB couldn't do enough, spent time gathering all of the info and chatting to customer. Just under £150 wasted across trips to three different indys - MB sort in for £100 + VAT.
The car runs beautifully now and my only regret is that I didn't go straight to MB in the first instance.
Thanks very much to everyone who took the time to help me by answering my posts and making some great suggestions. Also, I hope that my experience and findings will be of some use to other members in their troubles.
PS - Anyone want to buy a fully servicable Exhaust Back Pressure Sensor, now surplus to requirements??
Last edited:
Dieselman
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Nice fix.
The dealer is?
The dealer is?
mobeyone
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Superb result, I may pay this dealer a visit too! But your in NI!
Can an indie do all this? Do you have a contact or a name of who did it? I could then ask my local dealer to liaise with them.
Can an indie do all this? Do you have a contact or a name of who did it? I could then ask my local dealer to liaise with them.
Congrats on your fix.
Presumably it was Boucher Rd. I do all my own servicing and only take my car to them when it is something else. I have to concur with your experience. I have not yet had cause to complain.
The test is always when something goes wrong. I had my gearbox oil changed by them and they slightly overfilled it causing it to go into limp mode the next morning. They couldn't have been more helpful and apologetic - unlike their neighbours who in 10 years of BM ownership were incapable was admitting they ever made a mistake (of which there were plenty) and I will never own another BMW.
Presumably it was Boucher Rd. I do all my own servicing and only take my car to them when it is something else. I have to concur with your experience. I have not yet had cause to complain.
The test is always when something goes wrong. I had my gearbox oil changed by them and they slightly overfilled it causing it to go into limp mode the next morning. They couldn't have been more helpful and apologetic - unlike their neighbours who in 10 years of BM ownership were incapable was admitting they ever made a mistake (of which there were plenty) and I will never own another BMW.
MACHBUFFET
Member
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- X164 GL 350cdi Blue Efficiency
Hi Guys
The dealer was Mercedes Benz Portadown. Service manager was Simon and senior tech was Alastair (man's a genius)
Not sure if indie could do all of it, as the software upgrades are only available to the dealership to the best of my knowledge.
The two main actions that sorted the issue were
Reprogram all six injectors into memory
and
checking and cleaning of the EGR pipe (valve was fine, pipe- half diameter blockage!!)
but that's only what I remember from the debrief I had with the Tech.
Everything they've done is in my previous post, but I think these two were the main contributors.
Other than the software update, I'm sure a well set up Indie could do the rest.
Worthy of note though - when the car was hooked up to the MB mother ship, the engine required no software updates and was up to date, so it wasn't the software as such causing the issue. The point of the update was to start from a known baseline and take it from there.
The tapping sound I always thought was an injector (although he did confirm as fairly normal for the V6 cdi) is the exhaust "plumbing" resonating, but as I said mine is now reduced by an estimated 60%.
By the way - once in a while my gearbox change from 1st to 2nd would be a bit sharp - now smooth as. He said that once in a while it's no harm to perform a "gearbox adaptation" procedure - simple to do yourself and just unlearns the gearbox's bad habits that it's "learned over a period.
Any more help I can offer, let me know.
Regards
Barry
The dealer was Mercedes Benz Portadown. Service manager was Simon and senior tech was Alastair (man's a genius)
Not sure if indie could do all of it, as the software upgrades are only available to the dealership to the best of my knowledge.
The two main actions that sorted the issue were
Reprogram all six injectors into memory
and
checking and cleaning of the EGR pipe (valve was fine, pipe- half diameter blockage!!)
but that's only what I remember from the debrief I had with the Tech.
Everything they've done is in my previous post, but I think these two were the main contributors.
Other than the software update, I'm sure a well set up Indie could do the rest.
Worthy of note though - when the car was hooked up to the MB mother ship, the engine required no software updates and was up to date, so it wasn't the software as such causing the issue. The point of the update was to start from a known baseline and take it from there.
The tapping sound I always thought was an injector (although he did confirm as fairly normal for the V6 cdi) is the exhaust "plumbing" resonating, but as I said mine is now reduced by an estimated 60%.
By the way - once in a while my gearbox change from 1st to 2nd would be a bit sharp - now smooth as. He said that once in a while it's no harm to perform a "gearbox adaptation" procedure - simple to do yourself and just unlearns the gearbox's bad habits that it's "learned over a period.
Any more help I can offer, let me know.
Regards
Barry
mobeyone
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MACHBUFFET said:
How much, think I may need this..,
MACHBUFFET
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Hi Mobeyone
I can't make or receive PM's yet, so could you text me on 07740 298267 re the sensor and I'll let you know.
Thanks
I can't make or receive PM's yet, so could you text me on 07740 298267 re the sensor and I'll let you know.
Thanks
Pendragon
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Don't know if this is of any help but I have just had the exact same problem and I replaced coils pack, leads, plugs and 02 sensors and didn't cure the problem.
Today I found out by chance that it was the breather pipes. They were blocked and not sucking in. Cleaned them out and BINGO...runs like a dream.
Keith
Today I found out by chance that it was the breather pipes. They were blocked and not sucking in. Cleaned them out and BINGO...runs like a dream.
Keith
MACHBUFFET
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Hi Radgor
Firstly, I apologise for taking so long to reply to your post.
I'm afraid that I can't expand on the description, as I've copied them directly from the Mercedes Benz Tech Worksheet, but I think they're official dealer terminology and a good indy will know exactly what they mean.
By the way, the Technicians opinion was that a large part of the problem was the blocked EGR pipework!!!
Hope this helps
Firstly, I apologise for taking so long to reply to your post.
I'm afraid that I can't expand on the description, as I've copied them directly from the Mercedes Benz Tech Worksheet, but I think they're official dealer terminology and a good indy will know exactly what they mean.
By the way, the Technicians opinion was that a large part of the problem was the blocked EGR pipework!!!
Hope this helps
