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E55k exhaust headers

marc.l

Active Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2007
Messages
258
Car
E55 wagon
Been looking at s/steel exhaust headers for a while and those in the no ( thanks savman) have come to the same conclusion , with RHD cars we have very limited choice.
In the past I've been using a semi retired guy to do the odd welding job on a few other projects and last time I spoke to him discovered that he has spent most of his working life building specialist exhaust manifold and exhausts for the racing teams and was highly regarded in the industry for making two stroke expansion chambers working for most of the big motor cycle racing teams from the 60's onwards . This morning he came over to look at making me a custom manifold for the E55 . His knowledge and understanding of exhaust systems was quite remarkable . He's took all the details and I gave him a list and pictures of all the currently available manifolds I could find including fab floored , kleemann, super sprint , mbh and a couple of others .
Just got of the phone to him and he's not had one good thing to say about any of them , so thought I would run this through with the knowledgeable people on here before I follow his advice ....
His first concern was the size of the primary tubes that after market manufactures use , any thing from 1 5/8 to 1 7/8 he thinks they are way to large and slowing the exhaust gasses down
His second was the x pipe arrangement , fully crossing both banks , he states that rather than x pipe all you need to do is cross over the middle two cylinder on bank one and two , keep them Seperated but in to the opposite bank , his argument being that all the exhaust pulses would be 180 degrees apart .
His best design or his recommended design is a four in to two , with the front and rear cylinders on each bank going two into the one and the middle cylinder primary's going two into one but the crossing under the car and joining the two into the two into one collector from the front and rear cylinder from the opposite bank .
Any one any idea what he means by exhaust pulses at 180 degrees apart ? Any merit in his advise ?
 
Be daring and let him crack on with it!

Rolling road will be the judge! :D
 
Marc

Are you referring to the exhaust when you term X pipe? Or the way each cylinder is fed into the header collector?

Interesting on the header tube size I have been having the same discussion and the guy I have been talking to has been looking at 1 1/4 inch for the same reason.
 
Any one any idea what he means by exhaust pulses at 180 degrees apart ? Any merit in his advise ?

He means that those cylinders fire exactly opposite each other so the gasses and pulses can be used to scavenge the spent mixture from the opposing cylinder.

Sounds like he knows his onions.

Forget measuring improvements on a rolling road, just use the MAF output and a stopwatch, both before and after.

Find a flat piece of road and mark out 400m, then run in both directions flat out from rest and get an average time.
You can do the same for 0-62mph (100kmh), but that's trickier.

If you can't measure a difference, there isn't one.
 
Hi savman
Would have no x pipe at all , but feed into the collector from the opporsit bank , very much like a gt40 180 degree header , but going 4-2 -1 on each bank .
My guy also recommended 1 1/4 primary's , he's very very cheap as well , he saying materials plus £120 to design and make ! He's 72 and dose work to keep him self occupied :)
 
OK so read your post again and it would seem that you/they mean to X cylinders 2-3 and 6-7. I would presume you would run Long Branch Tubular headers in a 4-2 each side to the space where the secondary cats would be and then X the branched 2 centre cylinders from each bank and then reduce to 2 x single pipes. For reference I think the firing order is 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8
 
marc.l said:
Hi savman
Would have no x pipe at all , but feed into the collector from the opporsit bank , very much like a gt40 180 degree header , but going 4-2 -1 on each bank .
My guy also recommended 1 1/4 primary's , he's very very cheap as well , he saying materials plus £120 to design and make ! He's 72 and dose work to keep him self occupied :)

I don't think you will have room with the transmission sump.
 
FWIW x-pipes/balance pipes are done as a compromise because the 'correct' way is such a ball ache to package with a Crossplane V8 (unless it's going in something with a similar layout to a GT40) if it's even possible. It's also kinda the same reasoning behind 4-2-1 with a 4 pot that needs to be tractable/produce decent torque at low rpm... a compromise because the ideal primary length with a 4-1 design makes life harder elsewhere- packaging is the obvious one but while a 4-1 typically 'makes' the most power a 4-2-1 can result in a wider power band

The crap design of many OEM manifolds isn't only about cost... where there's gains to made from pulse tuning there can be losses elsewhere in the rev range i.e. if scavanging helps cylinder filling at some rpm it's possible for it to hinder things when the engine 'sees' a length it doesn't like. Prevent scavanging by using unequal length primaries etc. and you also prevent over scavanging etc

Dunno if the link is gonna work properly but it should go to the exhaust chapter of 4 stroke performance tuning by Alexander Graham Bell Page 156 if it doesn't go straight there, goes into far more detail on 4 stroke exhaust theory
 
Be interesting to see how you get on with this Marc.

After looking at a multitude of exhausts, of which the Meisterschaft gave the best sound IMO, it sounded too much like a Subaru.

I since learned headers were the sound I wanted (not loud, just meaty until full tilt).

I've considered Kleeman headers but the costs are astonishing (just the product alone is a spectacular cost - not to mention the installation time).
 
I don't think you will have room with the transmission sump.

My thoughts exactly but his response was if you can get an x pipe in I can do it !

I've now got to supply him with boost pressure , exhaust valve size , exhaust gas temp and cam overlap and where in the ref range I would like to increase the power .
These things start out so easily and end up so complicated !
Thanks for the comments and info so far .
 
My thoughts exactly but his response was if you can get an x pipe in I can do it !

I've now got to supply him with boost pressure , exhaust valve size , exhaust gas temp and cam overlap and where in the ref range I would like to increase the power .
These things start out so easily and end up so complicated !
Thanks for the comments and info so far .

The only place I see room is the space between primary and secondary cats, you will also need to think about where the primary O2 sensor will go. I have heard of lots of problems if the primary harness is extended, if you are running 4-2 (then crossing middle cylinders) then 2 - 1 your lambda readings will only be based on an average of 2 not 4 cylinders on each bank.

I am concentrating on trying to hold the torque curve for longer, when modded you seem to end up with great torque low down at circa 2-3k but seems to drop off quick.
 
Would love to have an update for this! Headers are one mod I'm considering
 
Have you made any progress on this yet Marc.l?

I imagine it is going to be a royal PITA.
 
Ditto. I'm curious if the sums agreed with his initial thought of 1 1/4" primaries. My gut thought (without knowing valve sizes/exhaust port area etc) would have been 1 1/2", maybe stepping to 1 5/8" about half way to the collector and while the length would depend on the rpm you're tuning it too i would have thought the maths would spit out a number that's at the very least a right PITA to package
 
All going well , in the end went with 1 1/2 primary tubes going into 4 into 2 each side , with the two pipes staying seperate until where normaly a x pipe would go . Hoping to increase the power higher in the rev range 4500 rpm up . Will update with pictures of the manifolds and the custom killer chiller and the brake upgrade as soon as I have finished instaling the new bathroom ..... Women always full of good ideas when I'm busy :)
 
Brave man! Headers make a huge difference on these engines. Looking forward to the pictures.:thumb:
 
lopes80 said:
Brave man! Headers make a huge difference on these engines. Looking forward to the pictures.:thumb:

Hows the e55 still black,low and ready to devour anything that crosses its path ?

Sent from my iPad using MBClub UK
 
Quick up date

Flanges all ready to be collected , had them machine cut by a local company in stainless steel . All the mandrel bends have been orderd from the good old USA and should be here in 12-14 days :)

Next part apparently is the fabricator coming over and making a mock up using plastic pipe and then a simple jig made out of angle iron .
Cost so far $700 for the bends and £55 for flanges .
Been busy as late so not had much time to spend on the car but it's coming on slowly and spending most of my time sourcing parts .
Happy days :)
 
Sounding good, keep us posted on the progress
 

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