E63 AMGS Engine Seizure

[Bobby Dazzler]

Just my humble opinion.
The dealer could have given an estimate to find the root cause and subsequent damage. If it turns out that the owner has deviated from the recommended conditions - including mapping/track days/late/missing servicing etc, then they would be liable - with the dealer withholding the vehicle until payment is made.
If it turns out to be a manufacturing fault then the dealer should progress the issue with Mercedes.

That’s pretty much what happens. In this case the dealer has provided the £9k estimate and the OP just needs to authorise it. The final bill will vary depending upon how long it takes, what they find and whether Mercedes pick up all, some or none of the bill.

 

[Muckypaps]

I feel the chances of a Mercedes payout diminished when the vehicle left the Mercedes dealership.

 

[Alboy]

Am afraid the way the dealer presented my options as £9k for inspection and then intimating they find it was my fault due to the oil warning light that they say came on 4 miles before it seized, and implying they thought engine had been run on low oil made me very reluctant to authorize. Why throw good money after bad when they are hinting that they are not going to help you?

On Thursday, out of the blue I receive a phone call from Mercedes UK Head Office saying they were sorry for my treatment and they wanted to look into the case in more detail. Then somebody mailed me an hour later saying that they have authorised a sample of my oil the dealer had kept to be sent to an independent oil specialist company in Wales so they identify the fault, but they do not think the engine being low on oil was the cause of the seizure (they did not say what they thought it was). They then said because I had removed the car, they thought it very unlikely that customer contributions would actually contribute, and even if they did the work would have to be carried out by Mercedes. When I asked why they were sending the oil off if they were not going to help, they replied that it would be helpful for my independent mechanic.

At first I was elated somebody from main office had actually decided to help, then confused as they seemed to remove the offer straight away. Am not sure what to think anymore. No timeline of when the oil analysis will come back, and when Mercedes will make up their mind. In meantime, independent will have car ready with replacement engine this week. All in all, am probably no further ahead, and the bill I have paid for a replacement and fitting will be best part of £15 in total. Much cheaper than the £80k quoted by the dealer, but still hugely disappointing. Should never have happened, and Mercedes should have done more to help much earlier, no good calling me two months later with a confusing half hearted offer!!

 

[Ron . B.]

Regarding the oil sample. Great care has to be taken when collecting an engine oil sample to prevent contamination. I feel that the sample from the dealer Will be compromised .Think of it as being a DNA swab from an engine,you don't simply pour oil into a container and ship it off to a lab. Sample kits come with syringes,little bags to hold the samle ,bottles for the samples and a sheet detailing any known engine problems . The results returned will have a breakdown of all the oils additives,foreign substances and mettalic parts per million . How do you know the oil came from your engine? what sort of record was kept to provide evidence that it was your oil.
I suspect the dealers workshop knew exactly what caused the engine seizure and have been playing a game of pass the parcel to keep ypou in the dark rather than simply saying" sorry but we made a mistake at service". Don't forget,all dealer maintained Mercedes have a record kept on a central database .Get a copy of yours,even if you have to get a subpoena to access it. It can be obtained from any dealer.
I have seen plenty of blown engines which were the result of dealer workshops cutting costs to keep profit margins . Things like changing the oil but not the filter, the filter eventually breaking down and sending particles of filter material through the engine,killing it.

 

[Alboy]

Regarding the oil sample. Great care has to be taken when collecting an engine oil sample to prevent contamination. I feel that the sample from the dealer Will be compromised .Think of it as being a DNA swab from an engine,you don't simply pour oil into a container and ship it off to a lab. Sample kits come with syringes,little bags to hold the samle ,bottles for the samples and a sheet detailing any known engine problems . The results returned will have a breakdown of all the oils additives,foreign substances and mettalic parts per million . How do you know the oil came from your engine? what sort of record was kept to provide evidence that it was your oil.
I suspect the dealers workshop knew exactly what caused the engine seizure and have been playing a game of pass the parcel to keep ypou in the dark rather than simply saying" sorry but we made a mistake at service". Don't forget,all dealer maintained Mercedes have a record kept on a central database .Get a copy of yours,even if you have to get a subpoena to access it. It can be obtained from any dealer.
I have seen plenty of blown engines which were the result of dealer workshops cutting costs to keep profit margins . Things like changing the oil but not the filter, the filter eventually breaking down and sending particles of filter material through the engine,killing it.

Unfortunately I have no evidence to confirm the oil was mine, and no evidence to confirm it was uncontaminated. I have been into a dealer to ask for my service record, and it says 'engine oil and filter change' with a ticked box next to it. This implies that was done, but no way of knowing how much oil was put back in etc. Has been extremely difficult to get any real information out of the dealer. I suspect you are right and I have been passed around in an attempt for them to avoid footing the bill for repair, but it is very difficult for me to prove right now. Will be awaiting the outcome of the oil analysis, although i suspect it will not be in my favour for some reason!

 

[ChrisHGTV]

Unfortunately I have no evidence to confirm the oil was mine, and no evidence to confirm it was uncontaminated. I have been into a dealer to ask for my service record, and it says 'engine oil and filter change' with a ticked box next to it. This implies that was done, but no way of knowing how much oil was put back in etc. Has been extremely difficult to get any real information out of the dealer. I suspect you are right and I have been passed around in an attempt for them to avoid footing the bill for repair, but it is very difficult for me to prove right now. Will be awaiting the outcome of the oil analysis, although i suspect it will not be in my favour for some reason!

You could probably confirm if the oil they have returned to you (or are testing on your behalf) came from your engine by evaluating the composition of "their" oil and any residue you have left in the engine. We do this for crude oils in various ways - it's called oil fingerprinting, though this is for organic oils, not synthetics. I would think the way an oil changes through breakdown etc would be individual to that particular engine. So if "their" oil looks markedly different it could be evidence that it is not yours.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Unfortunately I have no evidence to confirm the oil was mine, and no evidence to confirm it was uncontaminated. I have been into a dealer to ask for my service record, and it says 'engine oil and filter change' with a ticked box next to it. This implies that was done, but no way of knowing how much oil was put back in etc. Has been extremely difficult to get any real information out of the dealer. I suspect you are right and I have been passed around in an attempt for them to avoid footing the bill for repair, but it is very difficult for me to prove right now. Will be awaiting the outcome of the oil analysis, although i suspect it will not be in my favour for some reason!

Although it’s natural to consider the possibility of wrongdoing, if possible try not to dwell on it as it could become all-consuming given the stress and cost associated with what you’re dealing with.

It’s definitely possible, but would require collusion across a very large number of people across the franchise business you’re dealing with, Mercedes-Benz UK Ltd, and Mercedes-Benz Group AG.

Unfortunately the understandable lack of confidence and trust you have for the dealer/Mercedes and their motives, will unfortunately be two-way, especially since the car has been removed from the dealer.

Removing the car from the dealer certainly makes it difficult - and takes away the opportunity - for Mercedes to make things right now, and so unfortunately I suspect that it will likely end in two ways now:

1. You end up very disappointed that you personally carried the full cost and inconvenience, and may never know what actually happened and whether there was collusion against you.

2. You go through a long legal dispute with further potential for considerable cost and associated stress, and Mercedes may (or may not) end up settling in or out of court with a payment towards the repair costs.

In either eventuality, it will be difficult to move on if you have lasting thoughts of distrust. Whether or not those thoughts are valid, I would try to overcome them, as they’ll only ever deepen over time.

I really hope that you get a resolution to your satisfaction quickly and easily, so that you can move on.

 

[Bellow]

The oil analysis scarcely matters now. It is full of debris from all over the engine so no pin-pointing a specific failed bearing/wear surface.
Whether oil was circulating continually, intermittently, or not at all is of greater importance and the filter is where I'd look first for clues..

 

[philnewmerc]

Am afraid the way the dealer presented my options as £9k for inspection and then intimating they find it was my fault due to the oil warning light that they say came on 4 miles before it seized, and implying they thought engine had been run on low oil made me very reluctant to authorize. Why throw good money after bad when they are hinting that they are not going to help you?

On Thursday, out of the blue I receive a phone call from Mercedes UK Head Office saying they were sorry for my treatment and they wanted to look into the case in more detail. Then somebody mailed me an hour later saying that they have authorised a sample of my oil the dealer had kept to be sent to an independent oil specialist company in Wales so they identify the fault, but they do not think the engine being low on oil was the cause of the seizure (they did not say what they thought it was). They then said because I had removed the car, they thought it very unlikely that customer contributions would actually contribute, and even if they did the work would have to be carried out by Mercedes. When I asked why they were sending the oil off if they were not going to help, they replied that it would be helpful for my independent mechanic.

At first I was elated somebody from main office had actually decided to help, then confused as they seemed to remove the offer straight away. Am not sure what to think anymore. No timeline of when the oil analysis will come back, and when Mercedes will make up their mind. In meantime, independent will have car ready with replacement engine this week. All in all, am probably no further ahead, and the bill I have paid for a replacement and fitting will be best part of £15 in total. Much cheaper than the £80k quoted by the dealer, but still hugely disappointing. Should never have happened, and Mercedes should have done more to help much earlier, no good calling me two months later with a confusing half hearted offer!!

Did you write to the dealer stating their options?: Fix foc, or refund the car, or be sued for the cost of you fixing it via an independent (and give them 2 or 3 weeks to decide)?

This is the normal legal route. Would be unwise not to follow it.

 

[E55BOF]

... I suspect that it will likely end in two ways now:

1. You end up very disappointed that you personally carried the full cost and inconvenience, and may never know what actually happened and whether there was collusion against you.

2. You go through a long legal dispute with further potential for considerable cost and associated stress, and Mercedes may (or may not) end up settling in or out of court with a payment towards the repair costs.

He's not going to be suing Mercedes; he'll be suing the dealer if anybody. Mercedes have no legal liability in the case; moral responsibility is another matter... I suspect Mercedes, unless they're totally unscupulous, would reach some sort of accommodation with the dealer, but that is entirely separate from the legal case.

A County Court Small Claims Track claim against the dealer for £10K under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 will not be expensive, but it could easily take a couple of years to come to a hearing.

 

[Alboy]

So have now had more discussions with Mercedes UK head office, and they were of the opinion that the car should have gone straight to the West London dealership as they are an AMG specialist. Now that the car had been removed from Mercedes and taken to an independent, West London will not accept the car, as it would give them the potential financial liability which they are unwilling to accept. They then took me through 3 outcome scenarios based upon what they have seen with previous similar cases, and the best outcome was a 50% contribution from the factory if they could prove it was not down to outside interference, which would leave me with a £35k bill. Apparently there is no way they would ever increase the contribution beyond 50% and in some scenarios they would not make any contribution.

They were also insistent that it is down to the dealership to rectify the issue, they take the financial liability, not the manufacturer. Although they also stated that the engine would need to back to Germany as the manufacturer would want to see it.

They also confirmed the oil analysis on its own would not be enough to secure a contribution from the manufacturer, it would need to be stripped down. There was no confirmation around the fee West London would have imposed for them to strip down the engine.

I explained that I felt my treatment by Colindale had been appalling, and that the regularly changing storylines had let to my distrust of them, which is why I withdrew the car from the dealership. The response was that they could not comment, but they would be making this known to management, but ultimately not a lot they could do about this.

Overall Mercedes UK have washed their hands, as has the dealer. Perhaps me withdrawing the car was a wrong move, but Colindale's treatment left me with no option. Wish Mercedes UK had got involved much earlier, as perhaps then I would still be in the network, but there was no response from help was requested.

An unbelievably frustrating experience, makes you realise that although you love the product (when it works), once you have made the purchase your custom does not matter to the manufacturer. Am sure it is the same whichever car you buy. I'll be dropping in a replacement engine at the independent, stomaching the cost myself (will be cheaper than £35k), and will never buy a Mercedes again. I'll also be progressing the case with a lawyer to see if there is a cost recovery claim to be had, and if not, will be launching via the small claims court.

Thanks for all of your messages as I've gone through this journey - has kept me going through the pits of despair, but I need to bring it to a close now. For my own sanity, and my poor wifes!

If I ever get any legal recompense, I'll let you all know.

Wish you all happy and pain free motoring!

 

[badgx]

So have now had more discussions with Mercedes UK head office, and they were of the opinion that the car should have gone straight to the West London dealership as they are an AMG specialist. Now that the car had been removed from Mercedes and taken to an independent, West London will not accept the car, as it would give them the potential financial liability which they are unwilling to accept. They then took me through 3 outcome scenarios based upon what they have seen with previous similar cases, and the best outcome was a 50% contribution from the factory if they could prove it was not down to outside interference, which would leave me with a £35k bill. Apparently there is no way they would ever increase the contribution beyond 50% and in some scenarios they would not make any contribution.

They were also insistent that it is down to the dealership to rectify the issue, they take the financial liability, not the manufacturer. Although they also stated that the engine would need to back to Germany as the manufacturer would want to see it.

They also confirmed the oil analysis on its own would not be enough to secure a contribution from the manufacturer, it would need to be stripped down. There was no confirmation around the fee West London would have imposed for them to strip down the engine.

I explained that I felt my treatment by Colindale had been appalling, and that the regularly changing storylines had let to my distrust of them, which is why I withdrew the car from the dealership. The response was that they could not comment, but they would be making this known to management, but ultimately not a lot they could do about this.

Overall Mercedes UK have washed their hands, as has the dealer. Perhaps me withdrawing the car was a wrong move, but Colindale's treatment left me with no option. Wish Mercedes UK had got involved much earlier, as perhaps then I would still be in the network, but there was no response from help was requested.

An unbelievably frustrating experience, makes you realise that although you love the product (when it works), once you have made the purchase your custom does not matter to the manufacturer. Am sure it is the same whichever car you buy. I'll be dropping in a replacement engine at the independent, stomaching the cost myself (will be cheaper than £35k), and will never buy a Mercedes again. I'll also be progressing the case with a lawyer to see if there is a cost recovery claim to be had, and if not, will be launching via the small claims court.

Thanks for all of your messages as I've gone through this journey - has kept me going through the pits of despair, but I need to bring it to a close now. For my own sanity, and my poor wifes!

If I ever get any legal recompense, I'll let you all know.

Wish you all happy and pain free motoring!

Good luck buddy

You mentioned you have wife's. I only have the one, your a lucky man Thought I crack a joke, put a smile on your face

 

[Alboy]

Good luck buddy

You mentioned you have wife's. I only have the one, your a lucky man Thought I crack a joke, put a smile on your face

You have made me smile! One wife definitely enough . . . .

 

[badgx]

You have made me smile! One wife definitely enough . . . .

That's good to hear buddy. Your health and your family comes first. Hope all good things come your way to you and family in the near future ️

 

[kam09]

I always read good things about lexus treating their customers very well so maybe a lexus could be an option going forward.. hope you get a good result and all the best.

 

[Iggu]

I don’t think you have done the wrong thing.
Get a new engine in, flip it, then pursue £10k through the smalls claims process.
This is the best outcome you were ever going to get imo.
Dreadful experience for you and a real eye-opener for the rest of us (in many ways).
Good luck to you.

 

[AMGeed]

Awful outcome but not unexpected. Dealer washing his hands of the problem and MB UK just as unhelpful.
Hope you get the car back on the road and sold before long.
Can't say I blame you for not wanting another Mercedes, but don't be too sure other brands would act any different.

 

[GVT]

I always read good things about lexus treating their customers very well so maybe a lexus could be an option going forward.. hope you get a good result and all the best.

Wash your mouth out…..

 

[Fastcar155]

Hi , Why don't you write to the MD of Styner UK making him aware of the position.

 

[E55BOF]

Hi , Why don't you write to the MD of Styner UK making him aware of the position.

I'm sure he is already aware of this.