Ecclestone: It's an engineers' championship

[The _Don]

Bernie Ecclestone and Max Mosley agree that today's F1 is about the engineers more than drivers


http://www.pitpass.com/54967/Ecclestone-Its-an-engineers-championship

 

[MM85]

It has been that way for a while now. It almost seems like anybody with a driver's license could sit in a F1 car today and have good results.

 

[AMGeed]

^ And talking of Bernie, one crook endorses another!

BBC Sport - Sepp Blatter: Fifa boss should remain in post - Bernie Ecclestone

 

[Dryce]

It almost seems like anybody with a driver's license could sit in a F1 car today and have good results.

Not really. The cars are hard to drive.

However arguably take any current F1 driver and put them in the Mercedes F1 and they would have good results.

 

[Deleted member 113659]

I agree to a certain extent.

However hasn't it alway been like that? There's never been a driver that's taken a world championship in a poor car. There's been close run battles, but even then the drivers involved have been in the top 2-3 cars on the grid.

Maybe a way around it would be to axe the WDC and just have a WCC? (I know, never going to happen)

However, I still think a winning constructor needs good drivers. Nico Rosburg is no slouch. But Lewis is more often than not beating him. He did the same to Alonso at McLaren in 2007 and Alonso is regarded by some as the best all round driver.

I REALLY rate Lewis as a driver and honestly think he'll go down in history as one of the greats. However I'm not at all keen on him as a person. But then again his job is to drive fast, not win Nice Guy Awards.

All in all. I think a team with a winning car needs at least a top 5 driver to win championships. Mika Salo proved that at Ferrari when he replaced Schumacher in 1999.

Ant

 

[Deleted member 113659]

However arguably take any current F1 driver and put them in the Mercedes F1 and they would have good results.

REALLY???

Two words.......

Pastor & Maldonado. :bannana:

Ant

 

[Dryce]

REALLY???

Two words.......

Pastor & Maldonado.

Very poor counter example.

The majority of drivers in F1 never win a GP in their entire career.

Pastor Maldonado has managed to win a GP. Moreover he did it in a car that wasn't a Red Bull, Ferrari, Mercedes, or (remember when they used to win?) McLaren.

 

[Dryce]

All in all. I think a team with a winning car needs at least a top 5 driver to win championships. Mika Salo proved that at Ferrari when he replaced Schumacher in 1999.

That perhaps demonstrates that the 1999 Ferrari wasn't that good and perhaps demonstrates that Michael Schumacher made up the difference and a bit.

Also bear in mind that the Ferarri was developed to suit the driving style of MS. Different drivers do work the car quite differently - MS drove rather differently from Rubens Barichello.

(I think that Red Bull's success was not just down to dominance of the car but also the dovetailing of Sebastian Vettel's particular driving style and racing brain with the characteristics of the car).

The gap that Mercedes have right now looks bigger and I suspect a driver such as Sergio Perez, Nico Hulkenberg, or Romain Grosjean would look very good in it as well.

That's not a slur on Lewis Hamilton - I think Lewis in a Lotus or Force India would be scoring a lot more points for those teams than their current drivers. It's just that the Mercedes performance gap at most circuits is just so big at the moment.

 

[renault12ts]

That perhaps demonstrates that the 1999 Ferrari wasn't that good and perhaps demonstrates that Michael Schumacher made up the difference and a bit.

Also bear in mind that the Ferarri was developed to suit the driving style of MS. Different drivers do work the car quite differently - MS drove rather differently from Rubens Barichello.

(I think that Red Bull's success was not just down to dominance of the car but also the dovetailing of Sebastian Vettel's particular driving style and racing brain with the characteristics of the car).

The gap that Mercedes have right now looks bigger and I suspect a driver such as Sergio Perez, Nico Hulkenberg, or Romain Grosjean would look very good in it as well.

That's not a slur on Lewis Hamilton - I think Lewis in a Lotus or Force India would be scoring a lot more points for those teams than their current drivers. It's just that the Mercedes performance gap at most circuits is just so big at the moment.

In 1999 MS was out for part of the season...Irvine could have won the championship...but Ferrari themselves nobbled him. So...it wasn't just down to MS.

 

[scumbag]

Why is anyone still listening to Max Moseley. Isn't he the same as Saville?

And to be honest, who cares what Bernie thinks. He really does need to move on.


Half of the issue with F1, losing viewers etc is down to him and the decisions he takes. But he believes that it is everyone else fault.

Well, see ya Bernie, thanks for coming, you have been a right laugh.

Moving on

 

[CreosoteChris]

Readers with an interest in Bernie's thoughts on a wide range of subjects may be interested to know that he was interviewed on RT (formerly Russia Today) a week ago.

https://www.rt.com/shows/sophieco/318842-sport-speed-formula-one/

There's a bonus section for the last 6 or 7 mins where Lewis Hamilton appears (not as interesting as the Bernie bit)

And even if you get bored listening to Bernie drone on, you can enjoy watching the utterly babelicious Sophie Shevardnadze conducting the interview

Note - this advice does not constitute endorsement of RT's political views, propaganda, etc.


Cheers, Chris
93 220CE, auto, red / black leather, 109k, Manchester

 

[Deleted member 113659]

Very poor counter example.

The majority of drivers in F1 never win a GP in their entire career.

Pastor Maldonado has managed to win a GP. Moreover he did it in a car that wasn't a Red Bull, Ferrari, Mercedes, or (remember when they used to win?) McLaren.

Hehe. You never ever seem to join in with a little bit of humour do you?

Relax and chill once in a while. The Pastor comment was in relation to him crashing more regularly than most.

Maybe get a sense of humour on your Xmas list eh?

Ant.

 

[Deleted member 113659]

Pastor Maldonado has managed to win a GP. Moreover he did it in a car that wasn't a Red Bull, Ferrari, Mercedes, or (remember when they used to win?) McLaren.

Hehe. Yes. Memory fading fast. Brazil 2012 last win for McLaren. :fail

Sad days as a McLaren fan. I know how Man City fans felt in the 80's now.

Ant

 

[Deleted member 113659]

In 1999 MS was out for part of the season...Irvine could have won the championship...but Ferrari themselves nobbled him. So...it wasn't just down to MS.

Yes, totally. That was my point. MS & EI went well that year. But when MS broke his leg. Mikka Salo then qualified regularly in late teens. Ferrari had a belting car that year.

Just saying that just because you're an F1 driver doesn't mean you'll win races in a top car.


Ant

 

[roastbeef]

Has as already been said its been a engineering race championship since the first aero days or before ,just don't remember it being a problem until Lewis has had a dominant car,red bull won 4 championships on the bounce with a more often than not with a car very near or over the line of legality with its bendy body work ,fuel tanks in the nose ,and running blown hot exhausts ? (What ever the fxxk that is) but they were good for the sport according to Bernie now they or threatening to walk because they have not won for 1 season

 

[Deleted member 113659]

Has as already been said its been a engineering race championship since the first aero days or before ,just don't remember it being a problem until Lewis has had a dominant car,red bull won 4 championships on the bounce with a more often than not with a car very near or over the line of legality with its bendy body work ,fuel tanks in the nose ,and running blown hot exhausts ? (What ever the fxxk that is) but they were good for the sport according to Bernie now they or threatening to walk because they have not won for 1 season

That's a belting post

Ant

 

[Dryce]

just don't remember it being a problem until Lewis has had a dominant car,red bull won 4 championships on the bounce

The underlying degree of dominance is different.

And the options to catch up are a lot more limited ...

(What ever the fxxk that is) but they were good for the sport according to Bernie now they or threatening to walk because they have not won for 1 season

Whatever sour grapes may be at work with regard to Red Bull's position there is also a grim logic.

And it doesn't come down to not having won for a season but is also down to them foreseeing a lack of opportunity to compete for another world championship as things stand.

Their fundamental problem is that they don't have access to a top line engine. In the past a team could take a risk with another less established engine supplier but the situation in F1 is that there is no practical means of competing and developing the engine performance. At the same time the power units (let's not call them just 'engines') are more complicated and more expensive.

Any team looking at a new engine supplier is going to take one look at the trap Honda and McLaren are in and think again.

At the same time the only two desirable engines are owned and controlled by works teams - and they're always going to be looking at maintaining their competitive advantage so have a disincentive to supply engines to other teams on equitable terms.

So why should Red Bull stay on?

If they pay to develop their own engine then unless by some magic it works right out of the box (unlikely) they end up unable to sort it and unable to compete.

Or they can pay their competitors for an engine that will be slightly lower spec. So they basically start with a handicap and at the same time they subsidise their competion.

F1 is in a very bad place right now.

 

[geraldrobins]

Why is anyone still listening to Max Moseley. Isn't he the same as Saville?

And to be honest, who cares what Bernie thinks. He really does need to move on.


Half of the issue with F1, losing viewers etc is down to him and the decisions he takes. But he believes that it is everyone else fault.

Well, see ya Bernie, thanks for coming, you have been a right laugh.

Moving on

Why do you suggest Max Mosley is like Saville.
He is I believe a clever man and was a successful F1 team manager/owner with March. But some kinkiness has been reported but not akin to Saville.

 

[Deleted member 113659]

Or they can pay their competitors for an engine that will be slightly lower spec.

They cannot pay their competitors for any engines. At this moment in time Ferrari & Merc have refused to supply RB. It's Renault or nothing.

If they want to stay in F1 it's time to kiss and make up with Renault.

Ant.

 

[roastbeef]

And if red bull do stay with Renault I hope they only give them a customer engine after the way they publicly slated them .Honda have realised the mountain they have to climb and hopefully getting on with it Ron Dennis not thrown his toys out the pram or threatening to take his toys home , the sooner red bull hook up with vw (rumour) the better, then they can get back to bending the rules together lol