End passenger flights?

[ToeKnee]

I'd miss going the Caribbean twice a year if passenger flights were abolished

 

[Bellow]

I'd miss going the Caribbean twice a year if passenger flights were abolished

My point is - the industries that support your wage to enable that are gone. C-19 did that and C-19 came to our shores by air passenger travel.
Either, you have a wage and no holiday abroad. Or, you have the prospect of a holiday abroad and the strong possibility of losing your income (again) at any time.

 

[Bellow]

Are you trying to be as obtuse as the troll on another thread who persisted in asking for the Mercedes petrol models and refusing to accept any answers, so is now asking for diesel models? You’ve just asked how far people have walked when they’ve left China. Be honest, do you really think that the only alternative to flying is walking? How about the contestants in the BBC’s Race Around the World who in the first series travelled the 12,000 miles from London to Singapore without a single flight. Did they walk all the way? Of course not, but they all went through at least a dozen countries in their journey. Now stop asking such moronic sounding questions, you’re far better than that.

How many were there? Compared to the billions that fly, how many were there?

This is making me look stupid now - responding to such shite.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

How many were there? Compared to the billions that fly, how many were there?

This is making me look stupid now - responding to such shite.

You’re managing that perfectly well on your own.

(Note to self: never provide a small example to demonstrate a point, some people take the minuscule selection as the total.)

 

[AMGeed]

My point is - the industries that support your wage to enable that are gone. C-19 did that and C-19 came to our shores by air passenger travel.
Either, you have a wage and no holiday abroad. Or, you have the prospect of a holiday abroad and the strong possibility of losing your income (again) at any time.

Do you always have such a pessimistic view of life?

 

[DSM10000]

Do you always have such a pessimistic view of life?

 

[Senator]

We live in a globalised world now so the need to travel far and wide has become every bit as essential as driving to work or to visit family in another part of the country. Businesses around the world share knowledge and expertise that help them to develop and thrive. Of course most meetings can be carried out online now, but you can’t install a pipeline or administer medication over the phone. Then there are the countries for whom tourism is their main source of funding; stop air travel and those countries collapse. Or bring it down to individual levels; populations throughout the world are multicultural - should we be stopping people flying across countries to visit their parents, siblings or children?

We have become accustomed to cheap air travel over the last few decades, so much so that it's taken for granted and is almost becoming considered something we're entitled to do. That is not the same as air travel being essential.

Of course we can all continue flying everywhere once restrictions allow, and many probably will, but the tide might be starting to turn with 'flightshame' cropping up in the media. There'll be a shift towards those going on frequent long haul holidays as viewed as antisocial behavior, in the way SUV drivers have been in recent years.

 

[markjay]

Tourism doesn't have to end.
Britain is responsible for Britain's safety. No one else's. What China, Europe, America, etc, etc, choose for the safety of their citizens is up to them and there is nothing Britain can do about that. It can however prevent its own citizens going abroad and returning infected a fortnight later and spreading the infection through unrivalled access and time. Conversely, tourists can arrive infected and leave infected and the very small (relatively) people they come in contact with over a short duration can be tested/monitored and if infected contained relatively easily.
Obviously if all countries chose what I advocate for the UK then there will be no tourists and all of this assumes people will want to travel and accept the risks - an unknown as yet.

Tourism need not die even without international tourism - unless Brits are foregoing holidays to stay indoors, the shift will be to domestic tourism so the industry need not die. Hoteliers in say, the Highlands really wont care if their guests travel from Chingford or China.
The aviation industry can repurpose itself to carrying freight to survive - or wither. Are we in tears over the death of VHS? Nope, when a technology/industry/service has outlived its usefulness it can go. For all other industries to survive - it may well have to.

Countries will have to decide. Does their need for a disease free country that doesn't endanger life trump the want of some to fly internationally on a whim? Short of forced quarantine on arrival back from holiday, there is currently no known method where it can resume safely. And, I'll wager, a limited appetite for repeating these current measures every so often. Or the financial resources to support it. Factor in the possibility of becoming ill with C-19 in a country where no access to medical care exists (and the insurance was skipped due to cost) and the public will be considering their options very carefully. In that scenario, do we really want the infected keeping their infection secret so as not to be prevented from flying home?

Well, one way to resolve this issue would be Bill Gates vaccine passport, which seems more and more like a very sensible idea. We'll know exactly whose immune to what, and tourism can flourish safely.

 

[markjay]

So many discussions on the web concerning how life would change once Covid19 is beaten. IMO virtually nothing will change and given time we will be almost back to where we were in 2019.

Nothing will change, possibly, except that after the Coronavirus is over, countries around the world will stockpile a large supply of PPE kit, which costs Cents to buy per item (when there's no pandemic around), does not require any particularly demanding storage facilities, and lasts for many years before it needs refreshing - for 'in case there's a pandemic'.

It is astonishing that with all the pandemic talk since SARS in 2002, no one seemed to think it was sensible to purchase a few million dirt-cheap PPE items and stick them in a warehouse somewhere for the NHS to use should the need arise.

Sounds a bit like our country being attacked by an enemy invader and we realise that we have the most advance weapons in the world but we somehow forgot to make and stock the ammunition for it.

This begs the question.... "What did they think will happen?" Did someone really believe that PPE kit could be sourced quickly and cheaply from China or Turkey while the entire world is in the grip of a pandemic? How much money was 'saved' by not buying a stockpile of disposable masks and aprons?

 

[219]

People have been known to travel between countries without flying. I don’t know the figure, but there’s probably millions of miles of land borders that people cross every day on foot, by car, by bus, by train. It’s been going on for longer than air travel.

I've travelled to Europe many more times taking the car on the ferry than by flying .

 

[219]

Also crew costs and equipment costs come into play.

So what is commercially efficient isn't necessarily fuel efficient.

Example:

A freighter might theoretically operate most efficiently if it always lands at maxmum Landing Weight. So you basically load it with freight to this limit - and then you fly to the furthest airport en-route for which you can add fuel up to your max takeoff weight. So you stop maybe three times instead of going direct but you arrive at your destination with the most cargo. If you use the same crew then it might take you three days instead of one. So your aircraft is not as well utilised. So freighters are typically older aircraft - so if they sit an extra day here or there they are not depreciating much or consuming much financing costs just sitting on the ground.

OTOH suppose you have a nice shiny new long range Airbus or Boeing - you bought it (or financed it from) new and every day it sits idle is a cost. Suppose you can fly 30% fewer passengers and no cargo over some long range route. You carry extra flight and cabin crew to allow you fly for 17 hours instead of two sectors of 9.5. If premium passengers will actively choose your direct flight then it starts to look like a cost efficient product because you can charge a higher margin to replace the passengers and cargo you can't carry because you are arriving with an aircraft that will likely be well under its maximum landing weight.

Quite apart from fuel efficiency , in fact it was many times worse , the outstanding premium air service was Concorde , where passengers would pay much more , both for the status , and for getting there in half the time .

 

[219]

Numbers? How many walk from China compared to flying?

Probably not many to date , but there will remain sea passages , and rail options , plus a few brave should have driven it ( Paris-Peking car rally ) .

 

[Darrell]

I've travelled to Europe many more times taking the car on the ferry than by flying .

It might mean I have to spend my holidays in France for 2 or 3 years!!

 

[Deleted member 65149]

Well, one way to resolve this issue would be Bill Gates vaccine passport, which seems more and more like a very sensible idea. We'll know exactly whose immune to what, and tourism can flourish safely.

I used to have a little yellow book that did just that and which I took with me on every international flight. It listed all my inoculations and medications. I haven’t used mine for years, are they still in use by anyone?

 

[Deleted member 65149]

Nothing will change, possibly, except that after the Coronavirus is over, countries around the world will stockpile a large supply of PPE kit, which costs Cents to buy per item (when there's no pandemic around), does not require any particularly demanding storage facilities, and lasts for many years before it needs refreshing - for 'in case there's a pandemic'.

It is astonishing that with all the pandemic talk since SARS in 2002, no one seemed to think it was sensible to purchase a few million dirt-cheap PPE items and stick them in a warehouse somewhere for the NHS to use should the need arise.

Sounds a bit like our country being attacked by an enemy invader and we realise that we have the most advance weapons in the world but we somehow forgot to make and stock the ammunition for it.

This begs the question.... "What did they think will happen?" Did someone really believe that PPE kit could be sourced quickly and cheaply from China or Turkey while the entire world is in the grip of a pandemic? How much money was 'saved' by not buying a stockpile of disposable masks and aprons?

I totally agree. I think the reasoning may be that stockpiling such essential on a ‘just in case‘ basis provides nothing to show for governments to say “look what we’ve spent your taxes on.” We the fickle public will complain about money being spent on what may never be needed, then complain when those things are needed and haven’t been bought in advance.

 

[markjay]

I used to have a little yellow book that did just that and which I took with me on every international flight. It listed all my inoculations and medications. I haven’t used mine for years, are they still in use by anyone?

Oh yes, I remember those. I needed to have one when I started flying to West Africa for work (a few decades back...), you wouldn't be allowed into the country if you didn't have the little book with the stamp for a Yellow Fever jab - it was a mandatory prerequisite and was checked on arrival at passport control.

 

[Deleted member 6183]

I wouldn't miss holiday flights and I no longer need to fly for work.

In fact, I would be more inclined to fly if it became exclusive again like it was in the 50's when my Uncle and Aunt used to fly to Miami to pick up their Caribbean cruise ship.

 

[Swotty]

It might mean I have to spend my holidays in France for 2 or 3 years!!

Nooooooooo ... we're doing fine, thank you very much!

 

[Bellow]

Well, one way to resolve this issue would be Bill Gates vaccine passport, which seems more and more like a very sensible idea. We'll know exactly whose immune to what, and tourism can flourish safely.

How does that work with a new virus? One that just emerges unseen before and with no immunity or vaccine. Won't that be just like the past four months?

 

[markjay]

How does that work with a new virus? One that just emerges unseen before and with no immunity or vaccine. Won't that be just like the past four months?

It won't help with a new virus... but it will help with the old ones. People die all time from various diseases they caught from other people, but it's not a pandemic so we don't worry about it. Lives can be saved if we knew who is vaccinated, who is immune, and who is a carrier for a range of potentially-fatal infectious diseases.

I spoke once to a lady that worked at a medical centre treating refugees and asylum seekers. Some were diagnosed with TB, were told to always wear a face mask when in public places, and attend regular monthly follow-ups. Few wore the mask, and all disappeared without trace withing a few weeks, never to be seen again, probably living in the community to this day.

PS - this is not an anti-immigration rant, it is just when people have an infectious disease and no fixed abode, this combination presents a potential public health issue.