F1 2019

[GeeJayW]

I don't often agree with Jonathan Palmer, but in this case and given the current rules he is right in his assessment.

Seb was either out of control when he rejoined the track or he was in control and squeezed Lewis into the wall. Both scenarios breach the rules. Seb also by admitting that Lewis could have passed down the left, implies that he gained an advantage immediately following the incident.

In addition, the Max vs Kimi precedent from last year is pretty clear. For the stewards to not penalise Seb would have been somewhat inconsistent.

Lewis was definitely homing in on Seb's gearbox and may have been able to make a decent attempt at passing. For sure Seb's little escapade across the grass took the wind out of Lewis' sails. He said immediately that the incident 'closed the window'.

The five second penalty does seem harsh for what on the face of it was a racing incident due to a driver making an error under pressure. However in my view the driver applying the pressure should be the beneficiary, not the driver making the error. So there is some justice in the decision. The real losers were us, the viewers. Everything else is a crap-shoot anyway.

 

[Bellow]

So a load of armchair experts wearing tin-foil hats don’t get access to data they don’t understand but can misinterpret

I think we can all interpret a steering wheel's motion.

 

[st13phil]

I think we can all interpret a steering wheel's motion.

And in isolation that means what? For example, was the driver making a controlled turn, or were they attempting to correct a slide?

I don't know for certain, but I would guess that the data available to the Stewards is provided by the teams on a confidential basis as publication of it would allow another team to better understand how a given car is working.

 

[GeeJayW]

I think we can all interpret a steering wheel's motion.

Yes, everybody is well versed in the interpretation of race car telemetry.... not! Even if the good folks on this forum could/may make a rational judgement of the data set (and that is a stretch to be honest), out in FacePageland, it would not play well.

 

[Bellow]

If the FIA have compelling evidence then they need to share it with the public for the sake of its own credibility.
Beggars belief that the sport's new owners who are desperate to promote it in the USA as a spectator sport with the emphasis on racing allow a race in its neighbours yard to finish with the public unconvinced that the penal intervention was required or just.
The paying public were booing. The 'winner' felt compelled to share his top step of the podium with the runner-up. What a fvcking shambles.

 

[GeeJayW]

If the FIA have compelling evidence then they need to share it with the public for the sake of its own credibility.

They may not be allowed to if the telemetry data is provided under an NDA.

The stewards made a decision. If Ferrari, who will have all of the relevant data and know how to evaluate it, choose to appeal the decision, then I guess we'll see how that turns out.

After looking at it a number of times now, I think the evidence is pretty clear already. Seb made a driving error. On returning to the track the car was either under control or out of control. Either way, he forced another driver (Lewis) to brake in order to avoid a collision.

We might not like that a penalty was awarded. Not the first time I've not liked a decision by the stewards and I doubt it'll be the last.

 

[Chrishazle]

I'm intrigued having read that a stewards decision during the race cannot be appealed, yet we're reading that Ferrari plan to appeal the decision!

 

[guhvies]

I'm intrigued having read that a stewards decision during the race cannot be appealed, yet we're reading that Ferrari plan to appeal the decision!

Wherever you have lawyers, there's always a fee to be had...

 

[GeeJayW]

Sebastian Vettel: Ferrari will not appeal against penalty from Canadian GP

 

[bob6600]

Proposed 2021 $175 million will not include

Drivers salaries
Marketing
Top 3 exec's salaries
Engines

Not finalised yet

Formula 1 to impose $175m cost cap on teams in 2021

 

[GeeJayW]

Proposed 2021 $175 million will not include

Drivers salaries
Marketing
Top 3 exec's salaries
Engines

Not finalised yet

Formula 1 to impose $175m cost cap on teams in 2021

Interesting to see how the cap is policed.

 

[bob6600]

Interesting to see how the cap is policed.

From what I read, they will have a 'dry run' in 2021 asking for an 'open book' from teams but not penalising anyone. Definitely would be hard to police.

 

[Stratman]

Will the proposed cap take into account the extra funding Ferrari get just for being Ferrari?

 

[baxlin]

Will the proposed cap take into account the extra funding Ferrari get just for being Ferrari?

If the decision to adopt the system has to be unanimous, maybe not!

 

[Mactech]

A couple of weeks ago I got to meet up with Ross Brawn again. The conversation on the state of F1 went something like this:

'So how is life now you get to play with the whole train set?'
"Well, we have a clear vision, but the frustration is having to compromise"
' But Ross, you were always good at finding the right compromise'
" Yes, the more people involved, the bigger the compromises have to be, sometimes I wonder if I should have taken this on!"

We'll see, but I still believe if anyone can find a path through this minefield, then it will be Ross.

 

[GeeJayW]

^While the many different players want different things out of F1, landing on a formula that pleases everyone or even a formula that finds broad agreement is a very difficult task. It doesn't help that Ferrari see themselves as a special case and threaten to walk if they don't get what they want.

As you say, Ross is probably the best guy to try and pull it together.

 

[Stratman]

.........................................

It doesn't help that Ferrari see themselves as a special case and threaten to walk if they don't get what they want.

........................................

To draw a parallel, I'm old enough to remember manchester United being relegated in 1974. They were just as much the focus of media hype and frenzy as they are now, perhaps even more so as there was less competition back then. They weren't missed, football carried on as before and it was all quickly forgotten.

Call Ferrari's bluff. They need F1 more than F1 needs them.

 

[Mrbottomend]

I don't often agree with Jonathan Palmer, but in this case and given the current rules he is right in his assessment.

Seb was either out of control when he rejoined the track or he was in control and squeezed Lewis into the wall. Both scenarios breach the rules. Seb also by admitting that Lewis could have passed down the left, implies that he gained an advantage immediately following the incident.

In addition, the Max vs Kimi precedent from last year is pretty clear. For the stewards to not penalise Seb would have been somewhat inconsistent.

Lewis was definitely homing in on Seb's gearbox and may have been able to make a decent attempt at passing. For sure Seb's little escapade across the grass took the wind out of Lewis' sails. He said immediately that the incident 'closed the window'.

The five second penalty does seem harsh for what on the face of it was a racing incident due to a driver making an error under pressure. However in my view the driver applying the pressure should be the beneficiary, not the driver making the error. So there is some justice in the decision. The real losers were us, the viewers. Everything else is a crap-shoot anyway.

There is zero doubt in my mind that the stewards made the right decision based on the rules as they stand, and that it is also the correct result morally.

Every time Lewis gets on the gearbox of Vettel, Vettel makes an error. Regardless of the rules, it is up to Vettel not to make the error under pressure. Seems he cannot do that. So, the point is Lewis would have passed him easily and even got a nice little gap straight away as Vettel got back on the racing line and control.

Then Hamilton wins the race. But, so many people want the one who isn't the best driver to win? Why? Just to make an artificial competition of an already likely Merc victory.

Merc are the best team with one of the top three drivers of all time at the wheel. Why should they not win it? If the others could get their act together car and driver wise...maybe Ricciardo in a Ferrari would be good!! But no, they mess up every time even if Merc make mistakes like tyres too!

Vettel acted up after to cover for his mistake and divert attention from fact he is not up to Lewis. He may be good on good day with good car and no pressure behind (Red Bull x 4 champs), but not when the hammer is down!

Hamilton won, should have won, and there should be not a jot of doubt about that. The sport is about best driver and car, Lewis and Merc are that at the mo. No quibbles entertained! ;-)

 

[bob6600]

Will the proposed cap take into account the extra funding Ferrari get just for being Ferrari?

I think their extra funding is to be halved

 

[GeeJayW]

To draw a parallel, I'm old enough to remember manchester United being relegated in 1974. They were just as much the focus of media hype and frenzy as they are now, perhaps even more so as there was less competition back then. They weren't missed, football carried on as before and it was all quickly forgotten.

Call Ferrari's bluff. They need F1 more than F1 needs them.

I agree that Ferrari need F1, but do think F1 is better with Ferrari than without. I just wish they'd pull their collective finger out and deliver some results.

As a life long Utd fan, I remember it well and for sure the sky didn't fall in just because they weren't good enough to stay on Division One. Since then of course, they recovered well and enjoyed some success. Lately of course, they're not looking so good.