F1 2019

[Mrbottomend]

I agree that Ferrari need F1, but do think F1 is better with Ferrari than without. I just wish they'd pull their collective finger out and deliver some results.

As a life long Utd fan, I remember it well and for sure the sky didn't fall in just because they weren't good enough to stay on Division One. Since then of course, they recovered well and enjoyed some success. Lately of course, they're not looking so good.

Every dog has its day as they say! Let's see if Binotto, who appears to be smarter and less volatile than Arrivabene can get them there next season. Obvs not going to catch up enough this. Front wing started out wrong fro example, so unless Merc implode and the Italians get some miracle intervention via the Vatican, not this season.

Also think they should get rid of Vettel now he is flawed and cannot seem to stop being so, and go for Ricciardo as lead driver next year with threat that if he doesn't beat Leclerc and Leclerc does well, they will be equals or Leclerc favoured depending on circs, and Ricciardo decide if he wants to stay or not and help develop the team..with chance if they get right of being in a front row car regularly. Reckon if not he will never have a chance at Renault or elsewhere, now burnt RB bridges. Want to see him in the fight much more as sure he has more to give!

 

[GeeJayW]

^^
Arrivabene was a marketing man, so may not have had the best grasp of the engineering challenges facing the team. Binotto is an engineer and may not have the best grasp of....
Maurizio Arrivabene - Wikipedia
Mattia Binotto - Wikipedia

Ferrari is an amazing enterprise with absolutely top-level staff and have been true pioneers in Motorsport. They are however sometimes lacking in clear leadership and have a tendency to pull in different directions within the team. When Ross Brawn and Jean Todt were there, they had the collective vision and ability to align the various factions. They also had a certain driver that consistently delivered the goods, giving the team a sustained period of success. Without the three of them, things may have been different.

Right now in my view they have somehow lost focus, particularly with LeClerc (who has also made errors this season).

The 'front wing' issue is actually more complicated, it's an integral part of the aero philosophy/package. Changing the wing requires/forces changes elsewhere. To be honest, their 2019 car is pretty decent. So far this season there have just been too many errors in the car and on the pitwall.

As for Seb; the guy can pedal but has at times shown himself to be brittle when under pressure and boy is he under pressure this year! If ever he needed an error-free weekend, it was last weekend. He too has lost focus and from his recent 'rant' about the state of F1, is not enjoying himself at the moment.

I'm not sure Ricciardo would pull it around. Though he is a fine driver, I'm not sure (and could easily be wrong) that his leadership skills are strong enough to direct the Ferrari juggernaut.

LeClerc might be the man, but he's not quite there yet.

The new (more mature) Max might be an option if RB don't give him a car....

Lewis has the talent, but may not be interested.

 

[Mrbottomend]

^^

The 'front wing' issue is actually more complicated, it's an integral part of the aero philosophy/package. Changing the wing requires/forces changes elsewhere. To be honest, their 2019 car is pretty decent. So far this season there have just been too many errors in the car and on the pitwall.
I'm not sure Ricciardo would pull it around. Though he is a fine driver, I'm not sure (and could easily be wrong) that his leadership skills are strong enough to direct the Ferrari juggernaut.
LeClerc might be the man, but he's not quite there yet.
The new (more mature) Max might be an option if RB don't give him a car....
Lewis has the talent, but may not be interested.

Agree re wing at front having a knock on effect back through the aero package...hence why mentioned it...hence why their cornering below par, and then compounded by Vettel panicking. I genuinely think the mistakes have been so sustained and similar in some cases i.e. Hammer up his bum. that he is a busted flush now..if just one or two, but...

Actually think Ricciardo now so experienced and knowledgeable from RB and Renault now that would be a great asset. As long as equal or team leader think his driving very accomplished. And a proper overtaker too! Give Leclearc another settling in season then see where at end of 2020 season.

Lewis may want the Ferrari name on his cv before he finishes, just to add to all his other records and those to come..WCs with three teams? Is that record? If goes say 5 more years as has said could then say 2 more with Merc, then Ferrari for 3? Plus over 100 wins...Then, if gets the seven plus poles plus wins will be indisputed GOAT.

Max. Pah! Of the old 'if can't beat you I'll take you" school...may have gone quieter recently but that mainly because RB def third car whereas in couple of recent seasons definitely more = 2nd car. Soon as see him tight again reckon he will be same stupid Max,,,

Be great if was genuinely competitive, but must as purist point out that the whole game is get best car and driver and win...that is what one has to admire even if the races not always thrilling. Too many people not getting the deeper meanings than the spectacle..like a test cricket draw a 'boring' race can be fascinating when all aspects considered.

Hopefully even if slightly skewed still, the new caps will help sharpen the minds at the top teams and offer some chance to the other 7.

 

[Stratman]

Ferrari have lodged a right to review the Canadian GP penalty

Right to review is an official process that requires teams to submit "a significant and relevant new element" to the situation to governing body the FIA.

A Ferrari spokesperson said: "Due to the sensitivity of the matter, we are not giving any further details."

A date for a hearing must now be agreed between Ferrari and the FIA.

Let's play "Guess the significant and new element". I'm going for "We're Ferrari and it's really unfair"

 

[Mrbottomend]

Ferrari have lodged a right to review the Canadian GP penalty

Let's play "Guess the significant and new element". I'm going for "We're Ferrari and it's really unfair"

Neither Ferrari nor Vettel can admit he cocked it up...so they have to play this charade of a non-appeal....

They cannot claim something was broken on the car cos he drove on...what else? New data...seems unlikely as understand Stewards have everything in real time and for review at the time...that leaves zilch to appeal. The rules were applied fairly and squarely. Hamilton should have won. And he did fair and square...It is simply sour grapes on their part as you effectively say...spit the Italian dummies...

In what sport should a **** up be rewarded? Oh its ok, you can drive like sh1t and still win...come on!

It'll all fizzle out after a bit more huffing and puffing! Notice how well Hamilton handled it as well. He knew he had skewered Vettel but he was gracious and humble...very smart and shows just how sharp the guy is now in every way...like the psych at Monaco that he couldn't carry on! Superb driver, smartest driver on the grid...deserves unqualified respect, wet and dry.

Oh, just to prove am not a Hammer groupie, I don't like his religion stuff, but hell he can drive

 

[GeeJayW]

Given that Seb (again) made a driving error pretty much by himself, it will be interesting to see what Ferrari put forward to support their position on the incident. Maybe they do have something that everyone else missed.

Autosport speculation here:
The evidence and arguments behind Ferrari's F1 penalty review push

 

[Mrbottomend]

Given that Seb (again) made a driving error pretty much by himself, it will be interesting to see what Ferrari put forward to support their position on the incident. Maybe they do have something that everyone else missed.

Autosport speculation here:
The evidence and arguments behind Ferrari's F1 penalty review push

NOWT! All bluff and bluster and attempt to bully. Sadly the Ferrari way..Be nice if they concentrated minds and money on the car and replacing Vettel now he's lost the plot! Remember when he drove into side of Hamilton,,and all the other **** ups!

 

[GeeJayW]

NOWT! All bluff and bluster and attempt to bully. Sadly the Ferrari way..Be nice if they concentrated minds and money on the car and replacing Vettel now he's lost the plot! Remember when he drove into side of Hamilton,,and all the other **** ups!

Yes, I do remember (I am old, but still for the moment compos mentis.. ).
If Ferrari are bluffing then that's a shame as they should be above that, but let's see what they have. Vettel's share value has definitely dropped, will be very interesting to see how long he keeps his seat or indeed his interest in F1.

 

[grober]

"Where the hell am I supposed to go?" "Lets start with the basics Seb Staying on the track is good!"

 

[400ixl]

"Where the hell am I supposed to go?" "Lets start with the basics Seb Staying on the track is good!"

Given the context that this is after he has failed the first point you make. Being a retrospective does no one any use.

Not surprising on a forum mainly frequented by brits and Mercedes owners, there is a lot of pro Hamilton, Mercedes, anti Vettel, Ferarri bias coming through. Meaningfully or not.

Personally, take the drivers and cars out of the equation, I would much rather see racing and people being able to push, make mistakes and work around each other. Not have petty rules dictate outcomes. I would rather see the cars harder to drive with more ability to follow and race. If we get this then more mistakes will happen and more races will get ruined by these rules.

I can understand the outcome in this instance, but it should be a wake up call that the rules are wrong (or at least being applied too vigorously).

 

[bob6600]

Ferrari should put their resources into making their car faster rather than wasting time and effort on this.

 

[baxlin]

Personally, take the drivers and cars out of the equation, I would much rather see racing and people being able to push, make mistakes and work around each other. Not have petty rules dictate outcomes. I would rather see the cars harder to drive with more ability to follow and race. If we get this then more mistakes will happen and more races will get ruined by these rules.

.

Sounds a bit like BTCC to me. Which is a lot cheaper and more accessible than F1, has more races, but with still a certain amount of politics (unfortunately).

 

[400ixl]

Ferrari should put their resources into making their car faster rather than wasting time and effort on this.

You think the same people are involved in both?

 

[400ixl]

Sounds a bit like BTCC to me. Which is a lot cheaper and more accessible than F1, has more races, but with still a certain amount of politics (unfortunately).

Maybe lets not go that far in open wheel racing. Could be a bit catastrophic.

 

[bob6600]

You think the same people are involved in both?

No, definitely not. But, efforts are being wasted for no reason imo. They should close the chapter and move on. As an organisation, this is where Mercedes have an upper hand, again imo.

 

[Stratman]

Can the FIA realistically overturn the result having promulgated the penalty to all the other drivers in the race, who would have undoubtedly driven differently because of it?

 

[GeeJayW]

Can the FIA realistically overturn the result having promulgated the penalty to all the other drivers in the race, who would have undoubtedly driven differently because of it?

I guess they can/could, after all it's their ball game.

 

[Dryce]

Lewis has the talent, but may not be interested.

Maybe after WDC7 ? Try and crown the career with a WDC8 in a red car?

 

[Mrbottomend]

1. Read the Autosport article...thanks to GeeJayW! Couple of points stand out. First, it does seem clear to me that he rejoined in an unsafe manner..he did so because he made a mistake. Either he could have contorlled the car, in which case he is guilty of worse than being crap, or he was not in control Doesn't matter as again he was crap, and so unsafe whatever the cause.

2. Piece says "That does not count in this case because Vettel did not gain any advantage from running off - as Hamilton ended up around 1.7 seconds closer to him after the incident than he was beforehand."

Rubbish, he gained the advantage of staying ahead and making Hamiltons job more complicated than if he had sailed past as he deserved to do for forcing the error.

I honestly, and not from a bias Merc owner perspective, believe that all the calls for new/changed rules to allow Vettel or anyone else to **** up and still win are madness!

I play chess (badly!), If I make one bad error against a decent opponent they win...fairs fair. I made the error. I lose. I accept gracefully. I also accept gracefully when they play elegantly and force the mistake by great play. What's the diff? Cannot get my head around it. Vettel driving bad is the issue...does he deserve to win? No way Jose!

 

[PobodY]

Not surprising on a forum mainly frequented by brits and Mercedes owners, there is a lot of pro Hamilton, Mercedes, anti Vettel, Ferarri bias coming through. Meaningfully or not.

Personally, take the drivers and cars out of the equation, I would much rather see racing and people being able to push, make mistakes and work around each other. Not have petty rules dictate outcomes. I would rather see the cars harder to drive with more ability to follow and race. If we get this then more mistakes will happen and more races will get ruined by these rules.

I can understand the outcome in this instance, but it should be a wake up call that the rules are wrong (or at least being applied too vigorously).

I'm not really a fan of Hamilton; I think I'm not in his demographic, but I can see the appeal to younger people. - I am a Mercedes fan, so I guess I prefer it when Bottas wins.
At the time I thought it was a marginal call by Vettel, but probably just one of those things; probably if he'd lost it again, and Hamilton had got passed, that would have been the end of it.

Ultimately this is just about an application of the rules of the sport, as you say. - The FIA doesn't come up with these things in a vacuum, so it can't all be on them.