F1 2019

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Stratman, Jan 7, 2019.

  1. baxlin

    baxlin Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    838
    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2013
    Location:
    Home Counties
    Car:
    Volvo C70 and JZR 3 wheeler
    I'm a fan of F1, but watching the highlights is enough at the moment - I’m even happy knowing the result before I watch...

    But on the 'boring procession' theme, anyone else noticed what I took to be irony or even sarcasm in the Bose sponsorship ads on the restart after the ads on C4?

    Something like "Oh it’s so exciting, two cars going into the chicane together....." - or words to that effect.
     
  2. GeeJayW

    GeeJayW Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    2,323
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2017
    Location:
    NW Blighty
    Car:
    C250d AMG Line P+ Estate (S205), MX-5 25th Anniversary Edition
    'Twas ever thus. A brilliantly engineered car driven competently has pretty much always been hard to beat by a competently engineered car being driven brilliantly. One exception being Donnington in '93 when a certain A. Senna scalped the opposition on lap one, in the rain, in an under-powered McLaren.
     
  3. Darrell

    Darrell Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    3,499
    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2006
    Location:
    Back in Mill Hill but sometimes in Skiathos
    Car:
    A Jaaaaag, 2016 Dacia Duster and a 2004 Carrera (996)
    I remember many moons ago, people said that anybody could sit in a Williams and win.
     
    Mrbottomend likes this.
  4. Bellow

    Bellow Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    4,020
    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2010
    Location:
    Ecosse.
    Car:
    450
    I'm more inclined to attribute most of what you credit TW with to Niki Lauda.
     
    Mrbottomend likes this.
  5. Bellow

    Bellow Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    4,020
    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2010
    Location:
    Ecosse.
    Car:
    450
    Does anyone have a link for the interview? If so, please provide! (Googled but cannot find it).

    This 'lowering' - absolutely via suspension (not steering geometry as per karts)?
     
  6. Mactech

    Mactech Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    2,992
    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2005
    Location:
    Biddulph
    Car:
    GLE 350d AMG Line, Land Rover Defender, Mazda MX~5 and VFR1200
  7. bob6600

    bob6600 MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    5,321
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2013
    Car:
    AUDI S8 V10, S210 E320 CDI (R.I.P.)
     
    Bellow likes this.
  8. Mrbottomend

    Mrbottomend Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    191
    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2019
    Location:
    U.K. SOUTH
    Car:
    CLK 320 CDI Sport
    Yes, good point! Think perhaps made excellent team.. So sad Niki no longer around. Such great memories of the 70s and Hunt et al, and such a cool guy...I get feeling Hamilton respects Wolff though as well...But yes, Niki took him there...one great driver knows another!
     
  9. Bellow

    Bellow Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    4,020
    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2010
    Location:
    Ecosse.
    Car:
    450
    'Tis pretty damned cunning - and a Ferrari innovation - not that that matters overly.
    Cheers for the links and vid (Mactech and Bob6600). James Allison continues to impress with his eloquent and understandable technical descriptions of what works and why. A nod to Mercedes also for letting him speak so freely - even if Ferrari et al aren't going to learn much from him they don't already know.
     
    Mactech likes this.
  10. Mactech

    Mactech Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    2,992
    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2005
    Location:
    Biddulph
    Car:
    GLE 350d AMG Line, Land Rover Defender, Mazda MX~5 and VFR1200
    Yes, the idea has been around a while, but giving the driver the right feedback through the steering wheel is the really difficult bit.
    From the turn of the century most racing sports cars have had power steering, mostly with electrical assistance. I know only too well how difficult is is to give the right 'feel' to the driver. It is the bit which tells him most about the grip level.
    In F1 they all have hydraulics, so my guess is that the steering pressure is electrically adjusted to give the correct feel using the already known parameters of speed, steering angle, lat and long G etc. ....and that's the bit which James Allison eludes to being tricky.
     
    GeeJayW likes this.
  11. Dryce

    Dryce MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    6,649
    Joined:
    May 17, 2006
    Car:
    ..
    Is this perhaps where it plays to Lewis Hamilton's strengths - he appears to be able to better adapt to and finesse the machinery that they give him.
     
    Mactech likes this.
  12. Dryce

    Dryce MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    6,649
    Joined:
    May 17, 2006
    Car:
    ..
    Pity the UK market as a whole doesn't listen to his comments on tyre profiles!
     
    Mactech likes this.
  13. 190

    190 Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    2,588
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2015
    Location:
    Cheshire
    Car:
    2009 W204 C180K
    A great pity but as long as the UK market puts form before function there is little hope for improvement.
     
    Mactech likes this.
  14. Mactech

    Mactech Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    2,992
    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2005
    Location:
    Biddulph
    Car:
    GLE 350d AMG Line, Land Rover Defender, Mazda MX~5 and VFR1200
    There is a compromise here! James would love to have 18" rims on his race car, and may well get them in 2021, but at the moment the idea of keeping 13" rims comes from a ancient belief that that would stop very expensive brake development.....it has been in the F1 regs since the 70's.
    He would not relish the 'rubber band' tyres of the 'felt tip fairies'
     
    GeeJayW likes this.
  15. GeeJayW

    GeeJayW Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    2,323
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2017
    Location:
    NW Blighty
    Car:
    C250d AMG Line P+ Estate (S205), MX-5 25th Anniversary Edition
    Having 'balloon' tyres surely introduces some unwanted guesswork into the suspension design. Sure the sidewalls soak up kerbs, but as James mentioned as a result the suspension doesn't (can't be allowed to) move much. The tyres are effectively undamped springs designed by (currently) Pirelli and foisted on the teams. Some of the tyre oscillations that show up in super slow motion shots can't be good.
     
    190, Mactech and Mrbottomend like this.
  16. Bellow

    Bellow Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    4,020
    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2010
    Location:
    Ecosse.
    Car:
    450
    At some point between then and now, the tyre manufacturers were asked if they wanted to go lo-pro. They preferred chunky sidewalls - that they could better display their logos on.

    The fashion for road cars is just absurd. It's like watching a girl walking across a ploughed field wearing stilettos. Should look good but ends up looking ridiculous.
     
    stwat and 190 like this.
  17. 190

    190 Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    2,588
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2015
    Location:
    Cheshire
    Car:
    2009 W204 C180K
    There would be little sympathy if she breaks a heel but at least she wouldn't post it on a forum.
     
  18. 190

    190 Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    2,588
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2015
    Location:
    Cheshire
    Car:
    2009 W204 C180K


    Tyres being springs affect the overall spring rate of the suspension system. If you put 2 springs in series i.e. the suspension spring and the tyre, then the tyre softens the resulting overall spring rate. In order to maintain the same overall spring rate, Cars moving to very low profile tyres or for that matter, run flats should be matched with a softer suspension spring. Then there is ride height suspension bushes to throw into the mix. Is it any wonder that when manufacturers threw run flats on a suspension system not originally designed for them it didn't really work. Same goes for big wheels and ultra low profile tyres on a car not designed for them.
     
    GeeJayW likes this.
  19. OP
    OP
    Stratman

    Stratman Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    4,511
    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2003
    Location:
    Sunbury
    Car:
    W203 C200 CDI '04Estate
    ^^^^ Yeah, but it's wikkid, innit.
     
  20. GeeJayW

    GeeJayW Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    2,323
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2017
    Location:
    NW Blighty
    Car:
    C250d AMG Line P+ Estate (S205), MX-5 25th Anniversary Edition
    Yep.

    Another issue in trying to control the contact patch, ride height, angle of attack under load, is where in the overall suspension the various movements occur. The suspension linkages can only control the hubs directly. The contact patches are controlled by proxy via the tyre construction. With lower stiffer sidewall, the link from hub to contact patch is more direct and there is less slip angle. With balloon tyres, however hard you try, there is more uncertainty than you'd like, but it might make the car a bit more forgiving to drive on the limit. I don't have years of driving cars on the limit with different setups to know for sure though.

    My car has 19"rims and low-profile run-flat tyres, which are fine on decent roads and in sweeping B-road curves the car handles really well. They are however less than good on rough road surfaces, especially bad at dealing with potholes. It was almost a deal breaker as I wanted 18" rims. Given up trying to find out from Mercedes if the suspension setup is actually tuned differently for 19" RF and 18" conventional. May just fit 18" rims anyway and try it.

    BTW, anybody wanting an insight into race car suspension could do worse than read Alan Staniforth's book on the subject. I had an early copy, but it got lost somehow.
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Competition-Car-Suspension-Design-Construction/dp/185960644X
     
    Mrbottomend likes this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.