Formula 1 2025

[SpikyMikey]

Pretty much as he is in current times!

Pretty much as he is in current times!

(10 WRC rally wins and runner up in the championship four times - yet he's virtually unknown in Britain. The invisibility of Welshness).

It was his dad, Gwyndaf ("The Bus") in my rally-watching days, but Elfyn has definitely been more successful in his driving career.

 

[GeeJayW]

Pretty much as he is in current times!

Pretty much as he is in current times!

(10 WRC rally wins and runner up in the championship four times - yet he's virtually unknown in Britain. The invisibility of Welshness).

More like the invisibility of WRC these days. Used to be huge in the 80’s, but very much a minority sport today.

 

[SmartAmg]

More like the invisibility of WRC these days. Used to be huge in the 80’s, but very much a minority sport today.

Still good, though.

 

[st13phil]

More like the invisibility of WRC these days.

The almost complete absence of free-to-air TV coverage of motorsport is largely to blame, imo.

 

[SpikyMikey]

The almost complete absence of free-to-air TV coverage of motorsport is largely to blame, imo.

I remember the good old days with rallycross on Saturday afternoons on Grandstand and Rally Report with William Woollard and Tony Mason.

 

[Bellow]

More like the invisibility of WRC these days. Used to be huge in the 80’s, but very much a minority sport today.

I rediscovered it no more than a couple of years ago when I found the highlights aired on one of the additional ITV channels and it got me hooked. The absolute commitment no matter the (often changing) surface, terrain, or consequence of an off is edge-of-seat stuff. I like at a stage's end the driver has a mic and camera pointed at them long before the PR team can intervene - refreshing. And despite them being top class drivers (F1 drivers rarely succeed in WRC) they are all so down to earth, open and friendly. No prima donnas here!

Minority only in its lack of TV coverage though. An event spread over several days doesn't lend itself to the type of coverage circuit racing can enjoy. That, and the lack of very big money such as Liberty Media's relegates to a lower status but the driving is as good as can be found anywhere. That they have no 'target' ie, a car in front to pass, amplifies the required commitment. It has since its post Group B neutering evolved into as valid a category of motorsport as any.

 

[ChrisPDuck]

I went to see the Formula 1 exhibition at Excel in London yesterday, and can thoroughly recommend it to anyone with even a passing interest in F1. Every part of the exhibition was highly absorbing. A surprise for me was seeing the remains of Romain Grosjean's car. Despite the complete devastation caused by the high speed crash and the ensuing fire, the safety cell looks remarkably intact - quite astonishing given how it had prised apart and forced its way through the safety barrier.

 

[GeeJayW]

I rediscovered it no more than a couple of years ago when I found the highlights aired on one of the additional ITV channels and it got me hooked. The absolute commitment no matter the (often changing) surface, terrain, or consequence of an off is edge-of-seat stuff. I like at a stage's end the driver has a mic and camera pointed at them long before the PR team can intervene - refreshing. And despite them being top class drivers (F1 drivers rarely succeed in WRC) they are all so down to earth, open and friendly. No prima donnas here!

Minority only in its lack of TV coverage though. An event spread over several days doesn't lend itself to the type of coverage circuit racing can enjoy. That, and the lack of very big money such as Liberty Media's relegates to a lower status but the driving is as good as can be found anywhere. That they have no 'target' ie, a car in front to pass, amplifies the required commitment. It has since its post Group B neutering evolved into as valid a category of motorsport as any.

I agree with your post. Though rally drivers wouldn’t be top of the time sheets in F1 either. Different skill sets required.

 

[Bellow]

I agree with your post. Though rally drivers wouldn’t be top of the time sheets in F1 either. Different skill sets required.

I disagree. They are quick. Against the clock is what they do. Wheel to wheel racing is where they'd be found wanting. That said, I believe Rovanpera competes in circuit racing - and does well.

 

[GeeJayW]

I disagree. They are quick. Against the clock is what they do. Wheel to wheel racing is where they'd be found wanting. That said, I believe Rovanpera competes in circuit racing - and does well.

We’ll have to agree to disagree then. Whenever they put rally drivers up against F1 drivers, they are never put in F1 cars. Rally drivers are quick, but they won’t IMHO be as quick in an F1 car as an F1 driver.

 

[190]

Shame the WRC no longer comes to the North West. I used to go to special stages at Heaton Park ( 0.5 mile from where I lived at the time) Chatsworth House, and the Vauxhall factory at Ellesmere port. Chatsworth being out in the countryside amongst narrow lanes used to encourage spectators to try and emulate their hero's on the way home. I can remember more than one Spector's car wrapped around a tree as a result.

 

[Bellow]

We’ll have to agree to disagree then. Whenever they put rally drivers up against F1 drivers, they are never put in F1 cars. Rally drivers are quick, but they won’t IMHO be as quick in an F1 car as an F1 driver.

I'd wager that given enough time in a F1 car they'd be competitive. A pity we can't over the close season have an event that would decide it.

 

[SmartAmg]

I'd wager that given enough time in a F1 car they'd be competitive. A pity we can't over the close season have an event that would decide it.

Would be very interesting. Say have,
Two F1 drivers, Two WRC driver's
Two BTCC driver's and perhaps as a bit of a wild card, Two NASCAR drivers. In Four
races. Love to see that.

 

[Mactech]

I disagree. They are quick. Against the clock is what they do. Wheel to wheel racing is where they'd be found wanting. That said, I believe Rovanpera competes in circuit racing - and does well.

Over the past 40 years I've had the privilege of putting this theory to the test on a number of occasions and with rally drivers as great as Henri Toivonen and Colin McRae. I ran Henri in a F3 car back in the mid 80's. He was quick, but not in the top ten of the British F3 championship. But what a great bloke!
Coin McRae drove the Le Mans winning Bentley after the race in 2003. He was over 2 seconds off our regular drivers despite having done Le Mans a few times in GT Ferraris. For good comparison Chris Harris drove the car for the very first time that day, with the same amount of track time and was 1 sec quicker.
Chris is a great 'sideways' driver, but having run him in Palmer Audi cars, he was no better than mid grid amongst the budding race drivers.

It is a different discipline and the successful drivers on both rally and track devote their whole lives to be at the top of the heap.

Despite there being probably only 2% difference in the roles of the members of a race team and rally team, it took the World Rally Champion winning M-Sport a whole year to become on circuit race winners.
I know because it was my job in 2013 to lead that transformation.
2% doesn't sound much, but represents about 2 seconds a lap in lap time. That is an eternity in motorsport.

 

[Bellow]

Over the past 40 years I've had the privilege of putting this theory to the test on a number of occasions and with rally drivers as great as Henri Toivonen and Colin McRae. I ran Henri in a F3 car back in the mid 80's. He was quick, but not in the top ten of the British F3 championship. But what a great bloke!
Coin McRae drove the Le Mans winning Bentley after the race in 2003. He was over 2 seconds off our regular drivers despite having done Le Mans a few times in GT Ferraris. For good comparison Chris Harris drove the car for the very first time that day, with the same amount of track time and was 1 sec quicker.
Chris is a great 'sideways' driver, but having run him in Palmer Audi cars, he was no better than mid grid amongst the budding race drivers.

It is a different discipline and the successful drivers on both rally and track devote their whole lives to be at the top of the heap.

Despite there being probably only 2% difference in the roles of the members of a race team and rally team, it took the World Rally Champion winning M-Sport a whole year to become on circuit race winners.
I know because it was my job in 2013 to lead that transformation.
2% doesn't sound much, but represents about 2 seconds a lap in lap time. That is an eternity in motorsport.

That surprises me. I thought the rally guys would be closer.
Harris impressed me on a Top Gear edition where he drove a 2WD rally car and IIRC matched the time of a 4WD. The sideways stuff him and every other TG presenter indulge in could be any one of us - given the same power to the drive wheels and massive run off areas.

 

[ALFAitalia]

I bet most of us couldn't. Drifting a RWD car without spinning takes a decent amount of skill especially on the road. Only those that haven't tried it will say otherwise IMO.

 

[GeeJayW]

That surprises me. I thought the rally guys would be closer.
Harris impressed me on a Top Gear edition where he drove a 2WD rally car and IIRC matched the time of a 4WD. The sideways stuff him and every other TG presenter indulge in could be any one of us - given the same power to the drive wheels and massive run off areas.

Me too, but I remember Colin McRae having an go and being somewhat off the pace.

F1 is about balancing the car right on the limit at over 4G without going sideways. Even the braking is mind boggling. Standing trackside at Copse is hard to describe. And having the confidence to just turn in flat-chat at 200mph eg when taking 120R or up through Raidillon and know that the car will stick… it’s just another level.

 

[ToeKnee]

Would be very interesting. Say have,
Two F1 drivers, Two WRC driver's
Two BTCC driver's and perhaps as a bit of a wild card, Two NASCAR drivers. In Four
races. Love to see that.

You forgot two white van drivers.....

 

[SmartAmg]

You forgot two white van drivers.....

Oh yeh, they'd Defo, win.

 

[MrGreedy]

Would be very interesting. Say have,
Two F1 drivers, Two WRC driver's
Two BTCC driver's and perhaps as a bit of a wild card, Two NASCAR drivers. In Four
races. Love to see that.

Yes, that would be amazing.
In a reasonably priced car, maybe?