Getting ripped off with claim

[kusanku]

I assume the middle lane was marked "M5(N)" only and the right-hand lane was marked "M5(N) THE MILL". (I can't see the full markings in your photo.) If he was heading towards The Mill, the other driver must have entered the roundabout from the A4018 (Cribbs Causeway) where there are similar road markings, so he should have been in the right-hand lane even before he joined the roundabout.

Just had another look at my photos, and the previous set of road markings does indeed say "M5 (N) THE MILL" in the right-hand lane. So yes, he should have been in the right-hand lane even before he joined the roundabout. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[ringway]

How's this for an NU horror story:

I ride a bike - insured by NU. I was knocked off at a roundabout by a car driver - also insured by NU. Despite the case being clear cut in my favour, the other party disputed liability.

My NU case officer said to me - and this is almost verbatim: "I can see clearly from the case notes that the other party is 100% liable and, if the other party were insured by any any other insurance company we would take this to court for you. But we have a policy of not pursuing court action against ourselves and, as we have to pay for both parties anyway, it is our policy to settle disputed claims where we insure both parties on a 50/50 basis unless one party willingly admits full liability."

I had to involve solicitors in the end, which added an extra £10,000 to NU's total costs when they had to cough out.

IDIOTS!

 

[kusanku]

Latest installment.

Albany phoned me back this morning, after talking to both insurers. They said the third party insurers were quite reasonable, and not pushing to settle things by friday at all. However, NU were the total opposite. The woman from Albany had spoken to the same person I had spoken to, and got the same response as I did. She said he did not listen to a word she said, and consistently talked over her. Her was adamant that they are going to admit liability, and would not enter into any discussions. When she made reference to the photgraphic evidence, he said that he had not seen it. Her conclusion was that they have not even reviewed the evidence, are not attempting to represent my interests, and cannot understand their attitude. She decribed him as unco-operative, and just plain rude, and questioned whether they have their own reasons for not attempting to fight this case. Her only recommendation was that I make a complaint.

I then contacted NU to do just that, and after being put on hold for 30 minutes (essentially my entire lunch-break), I was put on to the manager/supervisor of the claims handler. I have to say I ended up shouting at this bloke, as he intially tried to peddle out the same rubbish as the other two. He then asked me to wait while he looked over the file. I pointed out to him that the whole debate seemed to rest on who was in the correct lane, and it is clear from the photos that I was in the correct lane.

He conceded this point, but said it was still my fault for not keeping a safe distance, and regurgitated this rubbish about how this was a rear-end shunt. My response was how could it be when the damage to both cars was to the sides? Next he said that I should have been able to brake, and that the damage to his car was further back than to his. I pointed out that was because I had attempted to brake, but as his statement confirmed, he did not understand which was the correct lane and assumed I was going right, so side-swiped me, leaving no time to brake. NU man then says there was no evidence that third party changed lanes, to which I responded that he was turning right, and could not do that without cutting across my lane. NU man's response was that third party was not turning right!!! Then got extremely annoyed, and told him to read the thrid party's account again, in which he says he was heading towards Patchway, which is the right-hand exit. Eventually he conceded this as well. Perfectly clear that NU had not reviewed the evidence at all.

Problem is where to go next. NU man says he will go back to third party and ask again for a 50/50. My response was that this is not good enough. He said we have to admit at least partial liability. Well, I do not think we do, but the fact of the matter is that NU have already admitted partial liability by offering a 50/50 settlement without asking me, and without reviewing the evidence, so I do not see the third party insurer backing down.

Where do I go next? Will the Insurance Ombudsman get involved at this stage? Although I have legal cover with Albany, I have now found out it does not cover me for the costs of disputing this and taking it to court. Even though NU have pretty well admitted, as far as I can see, that they did not review the evidence, they do not seem to be offering to sort it out.

 

[crockers]

If you accept 50/50 you both have an at fault claim registered against you.

At this stage I would now go over the supervisor's head and ask for the name of the person in charge of motor insurance in the UK.

Once you have that name - write to him - stating

1. You are registering an official complaint - then state your reasons for doing so
2. Ask for an official receipt of your letter with a complaint reference number
3. Ask for their official complaints procedure booklet.
4. Ask them if they subscribe to the Insurance Ombudsman's services. (not all do)

Then you have to wait for their prescribed time of reply - usually a few weeks.

If then you have no joy you can approach the insurance ombudsman for a decision.

If you want to have your car repaired - get NU to pay for the repairs but state in all correspondence that you are accepting the repairs "without prejudice".

I hope this helps


ensure all correspondence is sent registered mail

 

[st13phil]

I don't know whether NU (sorry Aviva) are registered with the Ombudsman Scheme, but whether they are or not is irrelevant at this stage because the Ombudsman will not look at any complaint unless and until you've exhausted the insurer's complaints procedure first.

I had a complaint against NU (contents insurance, not motor) about five years ago and found that writing to the MD detailing the littany of incompetence that characterised his business seemed to goad them into action. I had a response from their Head of Customer Service by return of post, and the matter was resolved to my satisfaction in less than a week.

Personally, I'd follow the same route again. Complaints systems are generally devised in such a way that it grinds down the complainer. Starting at the top avoids the increasing level of frustration that results from repeatedly having to escalate the matter

 

[kusanku]

If you accept 50/50 you both have an at fault claim registered against you.

At this stage I would now go over the supervisor's head and ask for the name of the person in charge of motor insurance in the UK.

Once you have that name - write to him - stating

1. You are registering an official complaint - then state your reasons for doing so
2. Ask for an official receipt of your letter with a complaint reference number
3. Ask for their official complaints procedure booklet.
4. Ask them if they subscribe to the Insurance Ombudsman's services. (not all do)

Then you have to wait for their prescribed time of reply - usually a few weeks.

If then you have no joy you can approach the insurance ombudsman for a decision.

If you want to have your car repaired - get NU to pay for the repairs but state in all correspondence that you are accepting the repairs "without prejudice".

I hope this helps


ensure all correspondence is sent registered mail

Thanks. I think that is what I will have to do. Car was repaired pretty quickly. I have no complaints about that side of things, just the way that NU had mishandling the whole liability issue.

 

[Dryce]

Once you have that name - write to him - stating

I would see if Albany can give you some sort of report or even an opinion as to the situiation. Even if they won't back it officially it would give you something to work with.

My approach would be to suggest very strongly that they have a duty to represent you (their customer) professionally, fairly and honestly and that (given your story) they have clearly failed and as such this amounts to negligence.

ensure all correspondence is sent registered mail

Recorded should do.

 

[Druk]

Not motor insurance but..............

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/insurance-assurance-companies/87529-norwich-union.html

 

[timwood2000]

Formal complaint is the only way forward. They will have a complaints procedure - NOT handled by the fella you have been dealing with so far.

Good luck

 

[verytalldave]

I was involved in a incident many years ago in which I was 10000% not to blame. There were no witnesses. The man in front let his car slip back and gently knock the front of mine while waiting at some traffic lights.
No damage was sustained to either mine or his car, although his car has many areas of previous damage. Nothing serious, just cosmetic and untidy.
He claimed off my insurance company and I was found to be "at fault", presumably because I was the person behind, and therefore - it was obviously my fault per se.
I wrote many times to my insurance company telling them of the facts of the incident and that I refuted all claims and that it was HE who hit me.
And that no damage was sustained to either mine or his car. NONE.
This was all a complete waste of time. He got his car "repaired" at the expense of my insurance company. My premiums didnt go up, but that isnt the point.
I didnt think persuing the point any further was worth the effort or time as I figured it was very unlikely that earlier decisions made would be overturned or reversed. So I just let matters lie. Even though it did grate enormously and I felt totally powerless.
My intention was to leave it for a period of time and then go and seek personal retribution. Which, if course I didnt do. But I can tell you I did feel like it - many times.
So I now leave an extra large gap between me and any other vehicle in front to me at all times. Even when stuck in a traffic jam or at lights.
Life isnt fair and sometimes being Mr Nice doesnt pay. However, I do believe to some degree of ying and yang and eventually these people do receive their comeupance in some form or another.
Its whats known as a life lesson I am afraid.

 

[jonnyboy]

I've just caught up with this thread.

The fundamental fact that seems to be missed is that if you intend to change direction/lane you must ensure it is safe to do so. TP did not as he cut across your lane when it was not safe. End of. Who was in what lane for where doesn't really matter, that said seemingly you have proved that he actually was in the wrong lane for his destination anyway.

I wish this thread's sentiment could be made a "sticky" as a warning to all those wanting the cheapest premiums with the consequences of dealing with call centre brokers and insurers. Never speaking to the same person twice/calcutta/bombay etc. Outsourcing is the scourge of most large corporations IMHO.

If you had a local broker you would be in his office going through it all and he would be helping you and actively involved, unlike K/Fit who I'm sure have taken their commission and ran.....

Follow the complaints procedure and instruct Norwich Union that you are prepared to go to court via Albany.

What people need to realise is that insurance is a business, and any company has a difficult time justifying spending £1000's fighting against £100's. I think inyour case that NU feel they can sweep the TP under the carpet with a cheap couple of grand for whiplash, but if they fought and lost, they would be hit for a lot lot more. That said, they will be more than happy to ride on the backof your coat-tails if you win.

Question - have you actively pursued your uninsured losses against the other guy via Albany? I can't remember reading it, your excess, inconvenience etc etc? If you haven't actively done that, it can appear like a tacit admission of liability on your part.......a good broker would have advised you to get cracking with this.....

 

[Dryce]

If you had a local broker you would be in his office going through it all and he would be helping you and actively involved,

I don't recall ever getting better claims management via broker. Assuming that they're even interested in expediting it they tended (IME) to slow the process as an extra intermediary - another place for paperwork to get lost.

Dsepite this thread modern insurance claims management is easier, faster, and better than it used to be. Customer expectations are higher too.

 

[jonnyboy]

I don't recall ever getting better claims management via broker. Assuming that they're even interested in expediting it they tended (IME) to slow the process as an extra intermediary - another place for paperwork to get lost.

Dsepite this thread modern insurance claims management is easier, faster, and better than it used to be. Customer expectations are higher too.

Made many claims via brokers Dryce?

No insurer or telesales broker in the land will give the sort of independent advice a high street/small company broker will. They can't, they just do not have the experience.

In such a competitive field it is vital you have the "edge" somehow.........

 

[Dryce]

Made many claims via brokers Dryce?

Of course. More than a few.

Which is why I now prefer to deal with insurers direct. Or go off to a claims management company for a third party no-fault claim.

No insurer or telesales broker in the land will give the sort of independent advice a high street/small company broker will. They can't, they just do not have the experience.

In such a competitive field it is vital you have the "edge" somehow.........

That's not claims handling. That's sales. And that's a different subject for discussion with regard to pros/cons.

Car/vehicle insurance claims handling has improved immensely since insurers started dealing direct with the public. And that includes policies sold via brokers.

 

[kusanku]

I've just caught up with this thread.

The fundamental fact that seems to be missed is that if you intend to change direction/lane you must ensure it is safe to do so. TP did not as he cut across your lane when it was not safe. End of. Who was in what lane for where doesn't really matter, that said seemingly you have proved that he actually was in the wrong lane for his destination anyway.

I wish this thread's sentiment could be made a "sticky" as a warning to all those wanting the cheapest premiums with the consequences of dealing with call centre brokers and insurers. Never speaking to the same person twice/calcutta/bombay etc. Outsourcing is the scourge of most large corporations IMHO.

If you had a local broker you would be in his office going through it all and he would be helping you and actively involved, unlike K/Fit who I'm sure have taken their commission and ran.....

Follow the complaints procedure and instruct Norwich Union that you are prepared to go to court via Albany.

What people need to realise is that insurance is a business, and any company has a difficult time justifying spending £1000's fighting against £100's. I think inyour case that NU feel they can sweep the TP under the carpet with a cheap couple of grand for whiplash, but if they fought and lost, they would be hit for a lot lot more. That said, they will be more than happy to ride on the backof your coat-tails if you win.

Question - have you actively pursued your uninsured losses against the other guy via Albany? I can't remember reading it, your excess, inconvenience etc etc? If you haven't actively done that, it can appear like a tacit admission of liability on your part.......a good broker would have advised you to get cracking with this.....

I have pursued my uninsured losses via Albany, who got onto the case immediately, whereas NU did nothing at all until TP insurers contacted them regarding personal injury claim. Albany consider TP 100% liable and intend to pursue him. Unfortunately, NU seem to have scuppered that by accepting partial liability without reviewing the evidence or consulting me. Unfortunately my legal cover does not include going to court to dispute this, and all Albany could suggest was to make a formal complaint. Kwik-fit, as broker, are refusing to get involed. I am putting together the complaint letter now, as that appears to be my only option.

 

[Smiley]

I have pursued my uninsured losses via Albany, who got onto the case immediately, whereas NU did nothing at all until TP insurers contacted them regarding personal injury claim. Albany consider TP 100% liable and intend to pursue him. Unfortunately, NU seem to have scuppered that by accepting partial liability without reviewing the evidence or consulting me. Unfortunately my legal cover does not include going to court to dispute this, and all Albany could suggest was to make a formal complaint. Kwik-fit, as broker, are refusing to get involed. I am putting together the complaint letter now, as that appears to be my only option.

Can you ask Albany to send you a letter stating their view that the TP is 100% at fault - you could then attach that correspondence to your letter of complaint to NU.

 

[kusanku]

Can you ask Albany to send you a letter stating their view that the TP is 100% at fault - you could then attach that correspondence to your letter of complaint to NU.

Absolutely. Will do that.

 

[crockers]

I have pursued my uninsured losses via Albany, who got onto the case immediately, whereas NU did nothing at all until TP insurers contacted them regarding personal injury claim. Albany consider TP 100% liable and intend to pursue him. Unfortunately, NU seem to have scuppered that by accepting partial liability without reviewing the evidence or consulting me. Unfortunately my legal cover does not include going to court to dispute this, and all Albany could suggest was to make a formal complaint. Kwik-fit, as broker, are refusing to get involed. I am putting together the complaint letter now, as that appears to be my only option.

I would put a shot across their bows by writing to their head office logging an official complaint - same process as above - request complaints number etc.
As a broker they work for you not the insurance company. They have a duty to represent you. The commission they get paid by the insurance company IS PAID FOR BY YOU - as it is added into the costs. Therefore it is a fee paid by you.
They should have given you a terms of business letter - get it out and read it.....

Good luck

 

[kusanku]

I am finally going to have to admit defeat on this one. NU left a message on my answerphone today to tell me that the third party's solicitors are intending to pursue me over this claim. NU said they have done all they can, and I am now on my own with regards to this one.

I contacted Albany, who phoned NU, and found them as completely unhelpful as they have been all along. I tried phoning NU myself, but got the usual experience of a call centre in India, where I was kept on hold for ages, and then put onto someone who could not answer a single question I put to her, and kept me waiting for ages while she went off to ask someone else. I then phoned Kwik-fit, who said that NU have the right to drop the claim if they don't think they will win, and it is down to me to defend it myself. Kwik-fit said they will not get involved. Because I am going against NU's decision, no legal cover or assistance will be provided. I then also found out, from Kwik-fit, that NU have actually admitted liability and already made a payment (probably for the car rather than the personal injury claim), so they have completely set me up.

It gets worse though. I then phoned a solicitor: a firm I have used twice before, although for something other than this. They put me onto their representative who deals with this kind of thing, and relayed the story. He listened, and then told me they would not be willing to take the case, and he doubted that any other solicitor would either.

Two reasons:
1) It will be argued that the third party was continuing around the roundabout, whereas we were leaving the roundabout. The fact that he was in the wrong lane is irrelevant, as our attempting to leave the roundabout was the manoeuvre which caused the accident. If we were leaving the roundabout, we should have ensured it was safe to do so, and if not we should have just continued around a second time.
2) The fact that NU have admitted liability will count heavily against me.

So I think I will have to admit defeat, and phone NU tomorrow to tell them I will not be defending this, and they can go ahead and do their worst. I have also written a letter of complaint to the chief executive of NU, but no reply yet.

I think the bottom line was that the third party's insurers, NIG, got solicitors involved straight away and did things properly, whereas NU just did not bother. Nothing to do other than forget about it: until I get my renewal quotes

Thanks to everyone for the advice and support you have given me.

 

[219]

our attempting to leave the roundabout was the manoeuvre which caused the accident.

According to your original post at the very beginning of this thread , he cut into YOUR lane ! Surely the accident would have still occurred even if you had also been continuing round the roundabout in the lane you were in ?

I think I'd see them in court and represent myself . Or take it to the insurance ombudsman who can overturn your insurer's 'decision' .

I would definitely NOT be renewing with them either .