Give way when joining dualled/motorways

[brucemillar]

It's called sarcasm. There is an entire thread on here dedicated to members who see lane closed signs and do not move over until in the cones. Those members are all trying to convince me that this is good driving.

 

[Lord-WYBMAnE220]

It's called sarcasm. There is an entire thread on here dedicated to members who see lane closed signs and do not move over until in the cones. Those members are all trying to convince me that this is good driving.

Oh, I see.
I don't mind people not moving into the remaining lane until the cones - as long as they're polite at the cones, rather than pushing in front of me.

 

[boxbrownie]

Oh, I see.
I don't mind people not moving into the remaining lane until the cones - as long as they're polite at the cones, rather than pushing in front of me.

If only all had the same attitude, after all the road is open until the cones close it!

 

[Lord-WYBMAnE220]

If only all had the same attitude, after all the road is open until the cones close it!

Well, I can't hold anyone else responsible for when I choose to join the queue.

 

[brucemillar]

Yes and this is the problem. How many times do we see jack flash tanking up the outside lane when everybody else has observed the signs that asking you to move over. Then when jack Flash realises he has run out road he transfers his poor manners onto to the others who have obeyed the signage, by forcing his way and justifying it by saying well the lane was empty.

If the sign says STOP I stop. It says Move Over I move over. Why should others not obey that simple signage but expect others to make way for them. As I said before try running up the outside of a cinema queue, push in at the front and shout that there was space there. Se how many thumps you get.

 

[Lord-WYBMAnE220]

Yes and this is the problem. How many times do we see jack flash tanking up the outside lane when everybody else has observed the signs that asking you to move over. Then when jack Flash realises he has run out road he transfers his poor manners onto to the others who have obeyed the signage, by forcing his way and justifying it by saying well the lane was empty.

If the sign says STOP I stop. It says Move Over I move over. Why should others not obey that simple signage but expect others to make way for them. As I said before try running up the outside of a cinema queue, push in at the front and shout that there was space there. Se how many thumps you get.

But there's only one lane at the cinema/supermarket.
Legally, drivers are entitled to join the queue at the cones. If I've given up my legal right to queue at the cones, I can hardly complain just because someone else doesn't.
A good maxim is never to give if you expect to receive in return ... only give when you wish to do so unconditionally.
No point in giving, and then beating up those you've given to because they didn't give back.
Perhaps you're just a frustrated queue-jumper who needs to indulge in a bit of queue-jumping to deal with his frustration ... but don't be surprised if somebody thumps you.

Try it - you might find it quite liberating ... nay even a new way of life.

 

[JohnBar]

All will be solved when we have driverless cars. Not long to wait.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

With the greatest disrespect, it's easier for the vehicle on the carriageway to adjust his speed and let someone in than it is for the joining driver to watch the car in front of him aswell as the gap he wants in his door mirror.
Drivers on the carriageway only have to look ahead. Drivers on the slip have to look ahead AND in the door mirror.
People need to be really considered and considerate about letting joining drivers on.

With even greater disrespect, if you're one of those drivers who only look ahead when on the carriageway then we're all in trouble. When I'm in lane 1 approaching a slip road entry I'm looking to my left to see what vehicles are in the slip road and what speed they're doing, I'm checking my mirrors to see what traffic is behind me in ALL lanes so that I know if and when it's safe to pull out or if I'm likely to cause a problem if I brake, and of course I'm looking ahead on the carriageway to evaluate the speed and distance of vehicles in all the lanes in front of me. IF necessary because of heavy traffic and there are no evident spaces for the first vehicle on the slip road to enter after me, THEN I will ease off to allow them to enter in front of me. That's consideration for vehicles on the slip road AND vehicles on the carriageway.

 

[Lord-WYBMAnE220]

With even greater disrespect, if you're one of those drivers who only look ahead when on the carriageway then we're all in trouble. When I'm in lane 1 approaching a slip road entry I'm looking to my left to see what vehicles are in the slip road and what speed they're doing, I'm checking my mirrors to see what traffic is behind me in ALL lanes so that I know if and when it's safe to pull out or if I'm likely to cause a problem if I brake, and of course I'm looking ahead on the carriageway to evaluate the speed and distance of vehicles in all the lanes in front of me. IF necessary because of heavy traffic and there are no evident spaces for the first vehicle on the slip road to enter after me, THEN I will ease off to allow them to enter in front of me. That's consideration for vehicles on the slip road AND vehicles on the carriageway.

A lot of typing for a statement of the self-evident, but my point that it's easier for the on-carriageway driver to accommodate joiners than vice-versa still stands.
Idiots who race to close the gap in front of them should get an automatic 6 points.
Why ?
Because their selfish, anti-social stupidity is the direct cause of accidents - with attendant cost to the economy in lost time and resources to the emergency services and travelling public.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

A lot of typing for a statement of the self-evident, but my point that it's easier for the on-carriageway driver to accommodate joiners than vice-versa still stands.
Idiots who race to close the gap in front of them should get an automatic 6 points.
Why ?
Because their selfish, anti-social stupidity is the direct cause of accidents - with attendant cost to the economy in lost time and resources to the emergency services and travelling public.

The "lot of typing" was an attempt to explain why I disagree with your statement about it being easier to accommodate joiners than it is for joiners to suitably adjust their speed to merge into the traffic. Clearly, despite my efforts, I've failed. Perhaps it would be better to quote from the Highway Code:

259


Joining the motorway. When you join the motorway you will normally approach it from a road on the left (a slip road) or from an adjoining motorway. You should

• give priority to traffic already on the motorway
• check the traffic on the motorway and match your speed to fit safely into the traffic flow in the left-hand lane
• not cross solid white lines that separate lanes or use the hard shoulder
• stay on the slip road if it continues as an extra lane on the motorway
• remain in the left-hand lane long enough to adjust to the speed of traffic before considering overtaking.

Surely those first two bullet points are clear enough for you. Furthermore, it goes on immediately to tell you how to drive when on the motorway:

260


When you can see well ahead and the road conditions are good, you should

• drive at a steady cruising speed which you and your vehicle can handle safely and is within the speed limit (see the Speed limits table)
• keep a safe distance from the vehicle in front and increase the gap on wet or icy roads, or in fog (see Rules 126 and 235).

So we're instructed when entering a motorway to give priority to traffic already on there and to match our speed to fit into the traffic flow. Those already on the motorway are instructed to drive at a steady cruising speed. Nowhere are we told to shoot onto the motorway at whatever speed we want in the assumption that others will give way to us because it's difficult for us to look at all the traffic. Nowhere does it say that when on the motorway we should reduce speed purely to let traffic enter. Of course common sense and courtesy dictates that this may occasionally be necessary. And of course it's very dangerous to close gaps that would have been suitable to merge into. But the facts are that the rules of our roads dictate that those entering a motorway have to give way to traffic on the motorway. Disregarding those rules to suit your own inabilities or preferences is a recipe for disaster. We'll all be far better off if we all follow the same set of rules - that's what the Highway Code is there for.

I'm sorry if that's too much typing for you to read, but I'm concerned about the safety of myself, my family and everyone else on the road so it's important to get this message across to those who refuse to accept it.

Your opinion (not backed by facts) that it's harder on the entering motorist than those already on the motorway is easily resolved with a self-evident (your term) driving technique - just keep further back from the vehicle in front of you on the slip road, then you'll have less to worry about and find it a lot easier to merge into the existing traffic.

 

[E55BOF]

How about a little give-and-take on both sides - both in this thread and on the motorway?

Personally, I'm with Bruce Millar....

E55BOF

 

[brucemillar]

Yes and my point is that when a Motorway or road sign is telling you lane closed move over, you should do exactly that. Otherwise the sign would say....

Lane Closed - Overtake everybody at high speed - chop left at the cones

This old empty stuff is a nonsense. The hard shoulder is empty so by the rationale of some on here we should use that when we fancy it.

Stop Start traffic in roadworks is invariable the result of those at the front of the queue being forced to brake by those who have shot up the outside, then forcing their way into the queue they were attempting to avoid.

So if we all do it then all the traffic moves to the right hand lane and we get to complain about people under-taking in the left.

I see no evidence or statement in the highway code that says lane closure signs are optional or there for our amusement - obey as you see fit.

The right hand lane is empty because people who understand the laws and sense of the road have obeyed the signs and moved over. Not to create a drag strip for those who wish to demonstrate their superior braking skills and slalom abilities as they dodge the cones and scare the hell out of the road workers.

 

[renault12ts]

I think..(therefore will never work on the highways)...that when filtering two lanes into one, the lanes should be divided by a row of cones to the point where both lanes should join together like a zip.

 

[brucemillar]

25/07/13
Lorry driver dies after crash on M2 between Strood and Chatham

Comments | 8

by KentOnline reporter

• [email protected]
• 
• 

Fire crews at the scene of the fatal crash on the M2. Picture: Andy James/photo3.co.uk

A lorry driver has died in a horrific crash on the M2 last night.
Two HGVs and a car were involved in the smash on the coastbound carriageway between J2 (A228 Strood) and J3 (A229 Chatham).
Kent Police said a male lorry driver believed to be in his 50s and from Kent - named in tributes as Richard - died at the scene.
The crash happened at around 5.35pm and sparked traffic gridlock, with drivers caught up in long tailbacks while the carriageway was shut for around seven hours.
It involved a white DAF truck, white Volvo HGV and a blue Mercedes. A bronze Skoda Octavia was also involved.
Miraculously, a man and a woman in the Mercedes - left a mangled wreck - suffered only minor injuries.
Witness Andy James said: "It was unbelievable that the car driver got out uninjured - the car was a complete wreck."

Traffic was held at the scene of the collision. Picture: Andy James/photo3.co.uk

Two lorries and a car were involved in the M2 smash. Picture: Andy James/photo3.co.uk

Fire crews at the scene of the fatal crash on the M2. Picture: Andy James/photo3.co.uk

Emergency services responded to the crash at the height of rush-hour traffic.
Around 15 firefighters were called to the scene - where two lanes of the carriageway were strewn with debris.
Paramedics from South East Coast Ambulance Service were also at the scene.
Witnesses reported an air ambulance hovering overhead, but said it did not land.
Police closed the road for around seven hours while the scene was cleared and a crash investigation launched.
It sparked long delays before the motorway was re-opened shortly before 2am.
Witnesses or anyone who saw the vehicles before the crash is asked to phone PC Robert Malins, at the Serious Collision Investigation Unit, on 01622 798538.

• 25/07/2013 10:13:50
  steve h wrote:
  This is quite a dangerous stretch due to the slight incline uphill and the queue's at junction 3 where drivers cut in as clearly they are more important than anyone else. It is worse the other direction (Westbound) where regularly you see vehicles doing around 100mph down the hill from junction 3 towards the Medway Bridge.
  31 3
  ReplyReport Abuse
• 25/07/2013 10:01:05
  Mrsgrumpy wrote:
  I drive up that stretch of road around that time each day and am very thankful that yesterday I had just gone past Junction 3. Every single day I see a "near miss" caused by ignorant and selfish idiots who think they do not need to join the queue to leave the motorway but think it completely acceptable to cut in just before the exit putting lots of lives at risk with their moronic actions. Nobody enjoys being in a queue but surely being 5-10 minutes late to wherever you are going is better than either not getting there at all or causing some other poor family to go through such pain. This accident may not have been anything to do with the junction admittedly but nevertheless its a very dangerous place to be.
  80 1

 

[Deleted member 65149]

I get your point Bruce, but you are citing extreme examples (usually adopted by Audi and Range Rover drivers? ). I give no apology for once again quoting the Highway Code:

288

When the ‘Road Works Ahead’ sign is displayed, you will need to be more watchful and look for additional signs providing more specific instructions. Observe all signs - they are there for your safety and the safety of road workers.

• ...
• Use your mirrors and get into the correct lane for your vehicle in good time and as signs direct.
• Do not switch lanes to overtake queuing traffic.
• ...
• Where lanes are restricted due to road works, merge in turn (see Rule 134).
• ...

Rule 134 says:

134

You should follow the signs and road markings and get into the lane as directed. In congested road conditions do not change lanes unnecessarily. Merging in turn is recommended but only if safe and appropriate when vehicles are travelling at a very low speed, e.g. when approaching road works or a road traffic incident. It is not recommended at high speed.

What isn't explained is what is meant by "in good time". This can mean different things to different people. But it does talk about "merging in turn ... at a very low speed". My interpretation of this is that all lanes leading up to lane closure(s) should continue to be used by those vehicles that were already in lane, not changing lane too soon. When nearing the lane closure(s) the traffic in all lanes should be slowing considerably, thus allowing each lane to merge in turn into the remaining available lane(s). For two lanes this would operate like a zip fastener and proceed smoothly with minimal concern. Three lanes into one is slightly more complicated but still achievable, especially with appropriately place cones.

Everyone getting early into the lane that eventually becomes the only available lane would work OK if everyone did it. But we all know that'll never happen. So the more efficient approach is the one I've outlined above with lanes merging about 100 yards or so before the restriction, all traffic having slowed well before that. In this way the impatient road users will be thwarted by the slower drivers in all lanes leading up to the restriction.

The only exception to this would be when road signs give instructions to move over immediately. But these less common instances are generally accompanied by appropriate cones so difficult to ignore.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

BTW, leaving a motorway at a slip road is a different matter altogether. Drivers should be getting into lane 1 at the earliest sensible opportunity. Were they to attempt to "merge in turn" at a late position they would only be able to do so safely by dropping their speed considerably whilst still in an outer lane, thereby inconveniencing those drivers not leaving the motorway. This is a completely different scenario to lane reduction/restriction on other parts of the motorway.

 

[Oldskoolflash]

There is always plenty of notice of a slip road via signposts. It's much better and safer to move to lane 2 if you see vehicles wanting to join allowing a clear lane to join the motorway. It called reading the road.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

There is always plenty of notice of a slip road via signposts. It's much better and safer to move to lane 2 if you see vehicles wanting to join allowing a clear lane to join the motorway. It called reading the road.

ONLY if by doing so you're not inconveniencing vehicles in lane 2 in any way. That's called reading all the road well. Remember that changing lane is the most dangerous manoeuver on a motorway so should only be carried out where essential, NOT where you THINK it MIGHT help someone.

Worse still would be moving out to lane 2 in anticipation of possible vehicles entering from a slip road, which would be in contravention of Highway Code guidance (keep to the left), and may even render you liable for the new £100 fine for lane hogging. Take care when performing what you consider an act of courtesy.

 

[Oldskoolflash]

Remember that changing lane is the most dangerous manoeuver on a motorway so should only be carried out where essential, NOT where you THINK it MIGHT help someone.

If it's so dangerous then why not make space for the vehicles changing lane from slip road to lane 1? You exaggerate to the extreme with your comment regarding breaching the highway code and being fined. It is sensible and safe defensive driving, and it is what you are taught during advanced driving training. With the greatest respect, I hold ADV motorcycle and car licences, I will go with what i've been taught and not someones opinion from a forum.

 

[brucemillar]

If it's so dangerous then why not make space for the vehicles changing lane from slip road to lane 1? You exaggerate to the extreme with your comment regarding breaching the highway code and being fined. It is sensible and safe defensive driving, and it is what you are taught during advanced driving training. With the greatest respect, I hold ADV motorcycle and car licences, I will go with what i've been taught and not someones opinion from a forum.

We used to be taught the the earth was flat. So be careful when ignoring others.