Go home...

[LTD]

well if you can separate them you are a better man than me!

Tony.

You might have seen the first move in the game of chess.

You may have seen recent high-profile raids on known areas of illegal employment such as Asian restaurants and take-aways. Owners who employ 'illegals' to work there and make them sleep in the premises or in an over-crowded flat. Other high-profile raids include brothels where a lot of Eastern European girls and their pimps have been caught.

Many places have been caught, others are still in the firing line.

Looks like this Government is finally waking up to one of our society's cancers.

 

[John Jones Jr]

I think the bigger picture is why the need for an amnesty in the first place? This issue hasn't popped up overnight and could be seen first hand in the west London area twenty years ago and that's only to my knowledge.

Anyway the billboard campaign is rather useless, it's just the Tory's doing a bit of kite flying & giving the issue some rhetoric imo.

 

[markjay]

It's not an amnesty as such... all they promise is that your deportation will be handled without resorting to the use of detention, but the end result is still the same.

An amnesty would have meant that those who come forwarded voluntarily are then given legal status to stay in this country. Which is clearly not what the government is offering in this case.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

I understand that the mobile billboards display a message saying how many illegal immigrants have been arrested in the area, but the figure given is totally fictitious! All indicators are that it's just a low budget exercise in an attempt to convince some people that the Government is trying to do something about it, with no real expectations of any success.

BUT, I happen to know a couple who came to this country illegally a few years ago having believed the hollow promises of the land of milk and honey. They took out a big loan to pay for forged documents and their travel. They finished up in a shared room with other illegals in Kings Lynn. The promised work wasn't there (unsurprisingly) and they soon ran out of the small amount of money they'd brought with them, so they borrowed more to pay their rent. They knew they'd made a massive mistake and they wanted to return home. But they didn't have the money for their flights and the documents they'd need. They were terrified that even if they managed to borrow more money to pay for flights and documents they'd get arrested at Heathrow for illegal entry. So they stayed here, working at anything they could for a pittance. They stayed in the shared room in Kings Lynn for nearly two more years until relatives managed to put together enough money for them to return home. They have since told me that if they'd been given the chance to leave the country without fear of arrest they would have done so immediately. They're sure that the others with whom they shared accommodation and work would have done the same. A mixture of fear and the cost of further documents was what kept them in the UK. They were all conned in their own country and ended up here in a Catch-22. Are we really all too inhumane to feel sorry for people who have made genuine mistakes?

 

[markjay]

Knighterrant, you make a compelling argument.

The question is if the people you mentioned are the typical illegal immigrants, or is this case the odd one out. I don't know.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

Knighterrant, you make a compelling argument.

The question is if the people you mentioned are the typical illegal immigrants, or is this case the odd one out. I don't know.

None of us know - and that's the problem. They MAY be in the minority, but I'm CERTAIN they're not unique.

 

[flango]

is there a difference!

Of course there is Asylum seekers are here because they are in genuine fear of their lives, that fear has to be real and proven or they get deported if they declare asylum when they land in Britain they go into the system.

Illegal immigrants are the parasites and scurge of our society, high crime rates, high drug use and cause problems in society.

In the words of Kevin Wilson " If you are an Immigrant welcome, if you are an illegal immigrant then fork off home"

SWMBO is currently working on the new legislation for illegals and it aint pretty and a massive departure from previous legislation.

Also contrary to popular belief Asylum seekers and Immigrants do not get council housing or benefits until their case is proven genuine.

 

[John Jones Jr]

It's not an amnesty as such... all they promise is that your deportation will be handled without resorting to the use of detention, but the end result is still the same.

An amnesty would have meant that those who come forwarded voluntarily are then given legal status to stay in this country. Which is clearly not what the government is offering in this case.

It sounds like an amnesty to me.

"This pilot is about targeting people who are here illegally and giving them the opportunity to leave the country voluntarily and with dignity, rather than be arrested, detained and removed''

Basically, it's saying they are offering an opportunity to a law breaker without arrest.

Not that it really matters as my point, as far as I'm concerned still stands.

I wonder too why the government doesn't target the people that offer accommodation and employment to the illegals rather than the illegals. Millions to be gained in fines there, might even offset the cost of carrying out the required investigations.

 

[Stratman]

A big problem with the current asylum/illegal immigration legislation as it's developed is the number of appeals allowed on the public purse dragging on for years, in some cases decades. No doubt this is partly due to many MPs also being m'learned friends with snouts in two taxpayer funded troughs. When a whole industry has grown around appealing asylum and immigration decisions there can be no doubt it's out of control.

If you want to claim asylum in Britain, present yourself at the border or a police station ASAP and state your case to the tribunal. You're allowed one appeal if you don't like their decision. The appeal tribunal has two doors, one marked 'Welcome to Britain', the other has a bus bound for Heathrow behind it.

 

[flango]

I wonder too why the government doesn't target the people that offer accommodation and employment to the illegals rather than the illegals. Millions to be gained in fines there, might even offset the cost of carrying out the required investigations.

They do but current legislation limits what they can do when they catch them, that's why the whole law around this is changing dramatically. Soon it will all get very active and the legislation will be there to deal with these people when they are caught and the penalties will be very severe

 

[John Jones Jr]

F1, we'll see. Anyway, if that's the case there's no need for the billboards imo. Also those mobile boards are akin to trying to stick a used plaster on a six inch wound and telling everybody that will listen you're actively dealing with problem. Never mind that the boards are distasteful and advertises the fact the current government & previous governments have actually never properly dealt with the problem/issue.

Glad, I'm not trying to sell a house in west London now with such a mobile billboard driving up & down the streets!

 

[flango]

I think the thing is they are trying to offer an amnesty for illegals to leave with dignity, because what's coming will shcok the carp out of them for the first time we have a government that have the bolls to tackle the issue head on put laws in place and actively seek out illegals and punish them and those that support them to the full extent of the law, I can't wait but I can hear the screams of the do gooders now, so what i'd do is anybody that opposes the new laws should be kicked out of the UK with the illegals this is our home a home I'm very proud of, yes it has its faults but having been to most countries in the world there's not many better places than the UK so lets make it a nice place for everyone and rid the scum that want to try and drag it down or disrupt our Society

 

[Stratman]

F1, will the new legislation address the never-ending appeals gravy train?

 

[John Jones Jr]

what's coming will shock the carp out of them for the first time we have a government that have the balls to tackle the issue head

Two points there.

First, I actually don't believe the best why is to target & focus on the the illegals themselves, as it's a business importing them, a business giving them accommodation & employment, the people to hit are the people that are in business or part of that business.

Second, you're dreaming if you think any government has 'balls', targeting illegals is not ballsy stuff it's just as I mentioned earlier it's good kite flying, rhetoric and trying to appeal to possibly non Tory & Tory voters alike. Also too, it possibly deflects from far more important current issues like the economy etc.

It would be interesting to hear what the immigration dept and associated departments etc have to say about manning levels & general support to target illegals.

 

[flango]

Two points there.

First, I actually don't believe the best why is to target & focus on the the illegals themselves, as it's a business importing them, a business giving them accommodation & employment, the people to hit are the people that are in business or part of that business.

Correct and that's what is being addressed.

Second, you're dreaming if you think any government has 'balls', targeting illegals is not ballsy stuff it's just as I mentioned earlier it's good kite flying, rhetoric and trying to appeal to possibly non Tory & Tory voters alike. Also too, it possibly deflects from far more important current issues like the economy etc.

First time it's ever been tackled this hard by so many

It would be interesting to hear what the immigration dept and associated departments etc have to say about manning levels & general support to target illegals.

I think what is being proposed will cover all the points you raise

 

[E55BOF]

Let's just wait and see what actually makes it on to the statute book, shall we? Serious action needs serious resources, which means serious money. It will be difficult in the short term for a cash-strapped government to find serious money.

 

[flango]

Let's just wait and see what actually makes it on to the statute book, shall we? Serious action needs serious resources, which means serious money. It will be difficult in the short term for a cash-strapped government to find serious money.

I agree we have to see what makes the statutes but the government can't be that cash strapped, with the money and resources they are throwing at this, a lot of secondments from various organisations and companies and a huge budget.

 

[John Jones Jr]

Ah, f1. Respect & fair play to you for being willing to eat humble pie!

Yes, I will remind you too.

 

[flango]

Ah, f1. Respect & fair play to you for being willing to eat humble pie!

Did I do that

 

[John Jones Jr]

Did I do that

No, not yet. We'll have to see how your Tory 'pals' proceed & progress after implementing this new legislation you've mentioned. I'll be back to you in twelve months, pie at the ready.