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Got a speeding ticket

Sp!ke

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On the Motorway near Leeds the other day, Roadworks sign ahead and temporary 50 MPH limit. I backed off ( anticipating the roadworks ahead) and by the time I went through them was doing 50.

Got pulled over a few miles up the road and was told that for 0.138 miles after the 50 limit I was doing 71 MPH. The officer agreed that I had slowed to 50 by the time I hit the roadworks (this can also be seen on the video footage) but still issued me with the fixed penalty ticket. I appreciate that traffic have a job to do and all that but this was just too #### officious IMO.

Does this sound right to you? I would have thought it would not be unreasonable to take a few hundred yards to slow down from 70 to 50 under normal conditions. I also thought one had to be followed for quarter of a mile. Is 0.138 miles enough?

I am thinking of fighting this one as not only do I disagree with the offence but the fixed penalty notice also states that the distance was 1.38 miles not 0.138 miles.

I know we got a few people on here that know about this sort of thing  <img src="http://www.mbclub.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'> so what do you guys recon? Is it worth fighting or am I just going to be wasting my time?
 
1/4 mile and he booked you. What a C***.

Fight it. Prepare for battle with a good Solicitor, Barristor if it comes to it.

The fact that the documentation is wrong is enough to have it thrown out of a Crown Court. Don't expect to win any favours at the first hurdle though - the Magistrates Court.

Good Luck.
 
Actually, 1/10 &nbsp;of a mile not 1/4.
 
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Got pulled over a few miles up the road and was told that for 0.138 miles after the 50 limit I was doing 71 MPH. The officer agreed that I had slowed to 50 by the time I hit the roadworks (this can also be seen on the video footage) but still issued me with the fixed penalty ticket. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

In a fight at court it sounds like the video will show you exceeding the limit between the start of the temporary 50 limit and the start of the roadworks.

If that's a correct interpretation, the court will convict you IMO.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I would have thought it would not be unreasonable to take a few hundred yards to slow down from 70 to 50 under normal conditions. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

The law requires you to do your slowing before you enter the limit, not after.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I also thought one had to be followed for quarter of a mile. Is 0.138 miles enough</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Yes, its enough,

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I am thinking of fighting this one as not only do I disagree with the offence but the fixed penalty notice also states that the distance was 1.38 miles not 0.138 miles.
Is it worth fighting or am I just going to be wasting my time?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

I may be wrong, but I don't see that decimal point making any difference. In a trial, it would presumably become clear that it was a mistake, because of the video/officers notes.

Please don't shoot the messenger. I'd feel just as sick and angry as you do if it happened to me. But we don't always make our best decisions when we feel angry.

I think the only area open to you is to discover whether the Highways Agency had properly ordered a temporary speed limit of 50 over the 0.138 miles prior to the roadworks. That would involve getting a copy of the relevant order, then checking marker posts, positions of signs, photographs, - a lot of work - or you pay someone to do all that for you.

If you go to court and fight, then unless you win, you risk a higher fine and paying your own costs and the prosecution costs.

Not what you wanted to hear, but an honest opinion.

The fact that you feel the officer should have given you a warning - well I wonder whether you shouldn't phone W Yorks police and ask whether there is any procedure for review?
Does it say anything on the back of the ticket?

If you fight it, I hope you win - I'd be delighted for you if someone else can post something more helpful to you.
Good luck, matey.  <img src="http://www.mbclub.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>

Take a look here before u decide - bit of a horror story, but has some good advice.
 
Did the 50 mph limit sign suddenly jump out and surprise you? i think not. There would have been plenty of warning signs prior to the 50 limit starting, which would have given you ample opportunity to reduce your speed by the start of the limit. Obviously you didn't see these, or chose to ignore them, and as such can count your blessings that it's only your speed thats in question, and not your lack of ability to drive with due care and attention!!

Never lose sight of the fact that it was you that had control over the speed of your vehicle, not the much maligned traffic cop!!
 
OK, I see!

I suppose that's the idea.

Spike, second thoughts, perhaps you shouldn't fight this. I agree I think it is WAY HARSH, but you is on film and you can't argue with that.

A warning I think would have done the trick, if your driving was otherwise sound, but I guess the Copper does not get promotion for that.

Perhaps only your &quot;road side behaviour&quot; could have saved you, but knowing how to handle a traffic cop is impossible. They have an answer for most things.

I don't beleive that anyone drives to the speed limit or under ALL of the time whether they be Driving Instructors, Preists, Police, Advanced Drivers, Driving Examiners etc, you being caught on the day was just chance and the fact that you were technically breaking the rules when in your mind you were just using your own judgement is unfortunate.

Did they show you the tape? Was it a marked Omega?

Road works on Motorways are notorious for mobile GATSOS etc, so this does not supprise me.

Hope the fixed penalty was not too bad points wise.

Drive safe people.
 
Well said Dave Elcome, I'm with you.

Maybe we should poll this one if anyone knows how to get it going.
 
Well actually, there was no warning of the 50mph limit. As far as I can remember, there was only a warning sign of the roadworks at the 50MPH limit sign which was around 1/2 a mile or less from from the roadworks. Bear in mind this was late at night on an unlit section of motorway with a low central reservation allowing oncoming headlights to dazzle. Perhaps there was another sign but I sure didnt see it.

The point I was supposedly speeding was between this sign and the roadworks itself.

I think I am gonna have to get hold of a copy of the video and study it as I am not 100% convinced I was speeding at the time anyway....certainly not 71 mph in any event.

I need &nbsp;to get hold of the video footage (which is my right apparently) and study it. If I do get a copy, perhaps Koolvin could host it for you all to see and we can have an unofficial jury here to decide whether I should pursue it or just accept the 3 points.
 
I think I may have just found something ......

Calibrated Speedometer
Found in traffic patrol cars. The minimum distance over which a calibrated speedometer reading should be taken is 2/10 of a mile. The police car must be following the target vehicle maintaining a constant distance. Often they are tested against Vascar units or with the help of another device such as a laser gun. Certified calibration is carried out on a rolling road.


So it looks like 0.138 of a mile wont be enough to secure a conviction.

Now I need to find the actual law itself to quote. Any idea where to look?
 
I Know you are mad, but if your are clean so far 3 points isn't bad and won't affect insurance much at all (if any).

I'm with you Spike, it's easy to say you should have been doing 50mph as soon as the sign said so, but people need to live in the real world. Unfortunatley the real world is where you get done but over enthusiastic traffic police chaps!

A 1/10 of a mile slowing down between 70-50 is fair in my mind.

No harm in getting the tape, or getting proper (professional legal) advice.

EDIT: JUST read your post above: - that's the kind of thing you could fight on. I know cases will be dropped on technicalities if faught correctly.

PS: I thought the calibrated Speedo reading just means that they have a speedo with 1mph increments, instead of the standard one. I believe this is a fairly manual reading.

If you are on video, are you sure it was not a Vascar system that they got you with? If this is the case I thought it had to be measured over a mile.
 
as soon as I see a 50 sign on the motorway I dial up 50 on my speed limiter stalk (press the cruise control lever in) then brake to 50. &nbsp;There are so many evil gatsos and more importantly sinister digital cameras around motorway roadworks that I always make sure I'm doing the speed straight after the sign. &nbsp;I was cruising through some motorway roadworks recently at 50mph with all kinds of people sailing past me at 60+. &nbsp;The speed camera was flashing like a strobe light, didn't they think the AMG styled mercedes with the rumbling exhaust was doing 50 for a reason? <img src="http://www.mbclub.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

On other parts of the motorway I have allegedly been known to go slightly over the speed limit, but with roadwork areas you get blokes working on the road and putting out cones etc so it's not fair to go blasting past them at ridiculous speeds.
 
I reserve the right not to comment , but i also use the speed limiter stalk.


try here , its an interesting read.

http://www.ukspeedtraps.co.uk <img src="http://www.mbclub.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>
 
LOL@Fuzzer

I was rather hoping that you would have an input on this one as you are probably the best qualified to comment <img src="http://www.mbclub.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

However I can understand why you chose not to.

A Yea or neah as to my interpretations on the distance requirements in my posting above wouldnt go amiss. As would a scan of the relavent ACPO page concerning this distance requirement.

[Edit] Looks like you showed me where to find it after all Fuzzer. Thank you.

There it is in Black and white in the Police Manual 2/10 of a mile. &nbsp;Do you think I can get a paper copy of the manual from HMSO?
 
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (fuzzer @ Aug. 01 2002,12:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I reserve the right not to comment , but i also use the speed limiter stalk.


try here , its an interesting read.

http://www.ukspeedtraps.co.uk <img src="http://www.mbclub.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Ive just had a look at the site, interesting stuff indeed.

Spike, i can really understand your anger and frustration at getting stopped like that, it happened to me about a week after a started driving. Fair enough in my case as i was doing 48MPH in a 30MPH. Got 3 points and a £40 fine. At the time, the official line with insurance companies was 3 points for speeding in a 30 (conviction code SP30) makes no differerence to your insurance whatsoever....it may be the same now.

Everything under the sun flashed through your head, &quot;why cant they bloody police catch somebody committing a real crime&quot; &quot;The bad guys always get away with it&quot; etc etc...i know thats what happened to me

However you have to see it from the point of view of the officer as well. They have a job to do the same as me and you. If someone did something wrong where you worked, he/she would be pulled up on it, no matter how small it seemed. Its a fact of life unfortunatly. And at the end of the day, if you go sailing past a sign saying 50..and you are doing above that then, you have to expect to get caught at some point. However i notice that you said you cant remember seeing a 50 sign..if so thats a whole difference kettle of fish.

One my last point (sorry to go on&#33<img src="http://www.mbclub.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'> there are ways of talking to people in order to not get their backs up. A minority of officers tend to have an extremely sarcastic tone which A) makes you feel about an inch tall and B) makes you feel like you have only passed your test the day before.

In conclusion clearly the best course of action is not to speed! (Not being sarcastic Spike as yours sounds like a different situation)

cheers
 
I think you'll find that the only way you will get the Video is to go &quot;Not Guilty&quot; - the ticket is a CONDITIONAL offer, ie if you accept your offence, the penalty is fixed at £60 and 3 points.

By the time you opt for a court hearing you ensure that the offer is withdrawn, and a court will see the conditional offer as the STARTING point, then add costs.

Here is the deal. If you were speeding, accept you were caught and get away with the lowest slap on the wrist, ie the ticket.

Blame the Cop, but he is the same guy who gets to pick up the bits when you run over a motorway maintainance guy. I was 3rd car on the scene of a fatal collision a couple of weeks ago.

Nothing slows you more than the memory of a body laid out in the road.

If you can't associate speeding with the consequences, it's your problem. If you didn't see the limit sign, just how fast were you going on the approach?

I can thoroughly recommend an Advanced Driving Course (NOT a Track Day&#33<img src="http://www.mbclub.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'> if you are actually willing to learn.

Cheers!
 
PS

If there were 2 cops in the car, you're stuffed. Speeding offences require corroboration.

That might be -

Opinion of Cop + Calibrated Speedo
Opinion of Cop 1 + Cop 2
Video + Cop
Camera Radar + Pic

Cheers!
 
Now this post has made me see red somewhat so excuse me in advance if I seem a little short tempered folks.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Blame the Cop, but he is the same guy who gets to pick up the bits when you run over a motorway maintainance guy. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Who Blamed the Cop? Besides you are now insinuating that I really was speeding and was somehow driving dangerously - so much so that I might injure someone.....You want to be careful what you say from now on in as I do not like your tone.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If you can't associate speeding with the consequences, it's your problem. If you didn't see the limit sign, just how fast were you going on the approach?
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

WTF do you you think I am? I am more than aware of the consequences, and the most likely reason why I didnt see a warning of the impending speeding sign is because there wasnt one. The 50 Limit sign itself I maintain throughout I saw.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I can thoroughly recommend an Advanced Driving Course (NOT a Track Day! if you are actually willing to learn.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

What kind of a sarcastic comment is that &quot;actually willing to learn&quot;<img src="http://www.mbclub.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>?  You have no idea! I dont mean to brag but let me put it this way, I have been on many advanced driving courses. Both independantly and through my employment.  I have also spent over eight years in the securities industry where the bulk of my employment was as a pursuit driver. In my years I  have clocked up nearly seven hundred thousand road miles. On top of which, I have circuit raced, road raced (Manx GP), raced motocross and even managed to finish an African endurance rally and hey, I am only 33 years old.

I dont think there are many &quot;advanced drivers&quot; or even traffic cops with the experience that I have. ( I have yet to meet one anyway) So when someone starts to try and lecture me about speeding and consequences, I am sorry, it really gets my goat.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If there were 2 cops in the car, you're stuffed. Speeding offences require corroboration.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

If you are going to give me advice, make sure you get it right in future. The police evidence is fundamentally flawed and based upon a recorded distance nearly half that of their own guidelines.  

Put simply, neither officers can catagorically say what speed I was doing due to the flawed supportive evidence. Therefore they cannot catagorically say I was speeding. They can say they think I was speeding but that is all. Without supportive evidence then I am affraid it would make a very unsafe conviction.

I was thinking Flip, what with your flippant [sic] remarks, perhaps you are just on a troll and I should'a just ignored your comments. On the other hand, your comments reek of being a traffic cop yourself. (not that I am saying TO's are ignorant or anything).

Please enlighten us as to which of the two it is?
 
Spike,

I read the replies shortly before you replied above and had to stop myself typing (I was at work).

I could not believe we had such perfect &quot;holier than though&quot; Mercedes fans on this board.

If you had posted obviously dangerous behaviour that you were bragging about I would have understood, but you didn't.

Your request was for serious advice.

I personally resign from this thread, as I cannot believe what I read, and it has spoilt my general enjoyment of this forum.
 

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