Has UK enough generating power for electric cars , heat pumps and all other requirements

[Fastcar155]

I think not but really think I am incorrect in my assumption.

 

[DubMerc]

Not if it is a calm day and everyone plugs in are the same time!!

However, just taking the EV owners, for most users they won't be plugging in every day. The vast majority will on average probably plug in once a week.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Yes

 

[Wearsthefoxhat]

but enough to run 28 million smart meters..

 

[Flyinspanner]

They may have ‘generating capacity’….. but do we have peak load capacity?

Do we have a sufficient distribution network to meet the demand across the whole country?

Have we solved the issues for tower block dwellers charging EVs.

For HMOs? (Many of which have no off street parking).

For turn of last century (and earlier) terraces where the front door is on the pavement?

Much of our infrastructure is becoming old, the houses on my street were built in 1932…(actually all the suburb around here was built in between the wars (Metroland))
.. I wonder when all the main supply cabling went in? And has it ever been updated? Certainly not in the past 30yrs I’ve lived here, - And as our homes become more power hungry, that draws more current, generates more heat…..

 

[markjay]

..Much of our infrastructure is becoming old, the houses on my street were built in 1932…(actually all the suburb around here was built in between the wars (Metroland))
.. I wonder when all the main supply cabling went in? And has it ever been updated? Certainly not in the past 30yrs I’ve lived here, - And as our homes become more power hungry, that draws more current, generates more heat…..

The houses in my street were built between 1860 and 1890 (originally built as town houses, now converted to blocks of flats)

Luckily we have lamppost chargers in my street, so charging an EV isn't an issue, but the plumbing and wiring are a nightmare.

 

[markjay]

I think not but really think I am incorrect in my assumption.

I don't know the answer... so I just Googled "can the uk grid support electric cars", and these are the top three links on Google:

So the National Grid and Autocar magazine both think the answer is Yes:

Busting the myths and misconceptions about electric vehicles | National Grid Group

Can the electricity grid cope with more EVs? And what really happens to old EV batteries? Find out the answer to these and many more questions about electric vehicles in our comprehensive EV myth-buster.

www.nationalgrid.com

UK national grid can handle EV surge, experts say | Autocar

Mass adoption of electric cars is predicted due to government's 2030 ICE ban, but infrastructure can cope

www.autocar.co.uk

I am no expert on these matters, mind, I am simply posting the top links that Google found.

 

[Flyinspanner]

The houses in my street were built between 1860 and 1890 (originally built as town houses, now converted to blocks of flats)

Luckily we have lamppost chargers in my street, so charging an EV isn't an issue, but the plumbing and wiring are a nightmare.

Are there enough chargers, to service every car on the street if every car on it was an EV?

is there a lamppost outside every dwelling? - it’s about every 4th house here…

….and what about high rise blocks?

 

[markjay]

Are there enough chargers, to service every car on the street if every car on it was an EV?

is there a lamppost outside every dwelling? - it’s about every 4th house here…

….and what about high rise blocks?

You need to consider that our neighbourhood is located in a central London location.

This means people can walk to the shops, or take bus/underground/Uber to the West End, etc.

Most people don't use their cars all the time, and definitely not daily. The result is that most EVs in my street get charged once a week or every other week.

In terms of position, there's a lampost (with charger) roughly every forth parking bay. So even if everyone converted to an EV, there wouldn't be a problem charging.

That said, EVs are particularly suited for this type of neighbourhood, both due to the typical use patern of private vehicles, and because Westminster invested heavily in converting hundreds of lamposts to EV chargers.

This is clearly not the case everywhere in the UK (or even in London).

High rise building are not the issue. Where people sleep at night doesn't really matter, it's where their cars are parked overnight that does. If the high rise buildings have an off street car park, then installing chargers is the responsibility of the Landlord/Freeholder. Where residents park in the street, they can use the lampposts and other public chargers like everyone else.

The main problem is in the suburbs, where there are individual houses (detached/semi/terrace etc) without a drive. There's no economic viability for installing public chargers in close proximity to each other in areas with low density of population. These neighbourhoods will get public chargers that for most people will be some distance away from their front door. And, the suburbs are where people need cars most (compared to those living in or near city centres).

The only solution, to my mind, is to subsidise the installation of chargers in all lamposts in the UK, even in locations where there's no economic viability for it, or mandate it as a condition for operator license (just as train operators are required to maintain some unprofitable routes to remote locations as part of their license).

 

[Dickster]

I don’t know the answer and don’t believe anyone who claims to know.

What I do believe is that existing equipment often needs upgrading to facilitate chargers, including domestic chargers. So, it’s not just the cost of the chargers, but also additional upgrade costs.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

There almost certainly won't be enough electricity to charge every car at the same time, at the same time as boil every kettle, have every light on, etc.

But I doubt there are many systems which are designed to run at the maximum potential demand at every time, so why would we expect the national grid to?

For example, the M40 hasn’t been designed so that every person in the South East can drive to Birmingham at exactly the same time; because it won’t happen.

Designing a system in such a way would mean designing, building and maintaining that system to do something it would never be expected to do, which is very expensive!

 

[markjay]

What I do believe is that existing equipment often needs upgrading to facilitate chargers, including domestic chargers. So, it’s not just the cost of the chargers, but also additional upgrade costs.

This is very true.

Those who live in houses with a drive and who can install a charger, will have to decide whether they will make the investment (and pay for an upgrade when due) and benefit from cheap electricity tariff, or just use public chargers and pay more for the electricity.

I am guessing that for people who only do low annual mileage it will work out cheaper to charge their EV on a public charger when needed, than to pay for their own charger to be installed.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

They may have ‘generating capacity’….. but do we have peak load capacity?

Do we have a sufficient distribution network to meet the demand across the whole country?

Have we solved the issues for tower block dwellers charging EVs.

For HMOs? (Many of which have no off street parking).

For turn of last century (and earlier) terraces where the front door is on the pavement?

Much of our infrastructure is becoming old, the houses on my street were built in 1932…(actually all the suburb around here was built in between the wars (Metroland))
.. I wonder when all the main supply cabling went in? And has it ever been updated? Certainly not in the past 30yrs I’ve lived here, - And as our homes become more power hungry, that draws more current, generates more heat…..

Yes, Remember all the industrial demand that disappeared ?

Think of the increased efficiencies in every appliance that's used.

Think of the off-peak scheduling of charging required, and then the storage capability of these thirty million batteries.

For sure there'll be cabling to be modernised and new hot spots, but the grid is the least of "our problems." (Replacing the fuel taxes being one of the most interesting)

And then there's the issue of replacing gas-fired central heating.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I am guessing that for people who only do low annual mileage it will work out cheaper to charge their EV on a public charger when needed, than to pay for their own charger to be installed.

Huh? Aren't public chargers already too expensive to do that, compared to the roughly £800 one-off cost of installing a domestic charger?

(Or to a subsidised / not quite for profit, but still 20% VAT, power source in your company car park etc)

And it won't be long before public charging attracts other taxes beyond the "current" 20% VAT "charged" as opposed to the just 5% VAT charged on our home electricity.

 

[markjay]

..And then there's the issue of replacing gas-fired central heating.

This is going to be the big one. You can't heat your home every other week, and only off-peak.....

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

This is going to be the big one. You can't heat your home every other week, and only off-peak.....

Yes and no. It will, but it can be done off peak, thanks to the progression on battery storage over the three decades or so that it'll take it all to happen.

And again, that demand is both unevenly spread through the day, and through the year.

 

[markjay]

Huh? Aren't public chargers already too expensive to do that, compared to the roughly £800 one-off cost of installing a domestic charger?

(Or to a subsidised / not quite for profit power source in your company car park etc)

And it won't be long before public charging attracts other taxes beyond the "current" 20% VAT "charged."

Personally, I think that those who can, will avoid public chargers due to the high cost of electricity.

For home chargers, there are smart charger that are linked to your electricity provider's price plan and will automatically start and stop the charging according to the cheapest off-peak tariff.

And this resolves the capacity issue, because the electricity provider's lowest tariff will always be applied to times of low demand, and so by using a smart charger not only will the car's owner get cheapest rates, but also the car will only be charged when demand for electricity in the area is low.

Not every problem we have can be resolved via the application of technology, but managing demand on the grid certainly can be.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Personally, I think that those who can, will avoid public chargers due to the high cost of electricity.

There's no "personally" in it, given the "current" pricing. The tariffs are out there for all to see. Public charging is much more expensive than home charging, for good reason: an extra 15% VAT and routine commercial operating costs.

So much so that it undermines the "economics" of first generation of hybrids, beyond that initial company car tax break.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Haven't got the stats to hand - and no inclination to look - but the last headline I heard was that the UK uses 20% less electricity than it did two decades ago because of the efficiency gains on commercial and domestic power.

Again, from first principles, you'd think that commercial demand outweighs domestic use.

 

[Larkone]

Still think that the move to A/GSHP and its impact is not being fully factored into this. Those types of heating systems work best when run continuously so will change the load characteristics on the grid. Off peak may no longer be a thing as overnight loads increase as a result. Then there is the overall load on the grid from all of this extra and we are woefully behind on replacing our current generation capabilities let alone increasing it.

The cost of charging at service stations will depend entirely how long you are prepared to be a captive audience in the retail experience. Take longer and it will be significantly cheaper than if you want the fastest charge times to get on with your journey and avoid the retail experience.