yeah that's what its looking like...The fact that the car drove like a dream up until that day and even on the morning (my partner had driven it to a clients a good 45 minutes away and it was completely fine) makes me question if the diesel was present as everyone I've spoken to has said it wouldn't be possible to drive without some indication that something wasn't right with it.
Help please! Contaminated Fuel 2021 E300 Coupe
- Thread starter dallman
- Start date
We are trying to find out from the dealership as all they have said so far is that it needs a new engine...
In terms of the noise, it started on the motorway and my partner pulled off immediately. Prior to this there was zero indication that there was anything wrong with the car - ran like a dream from delivery through 2 full tank refuelling's and 7 days after the last refuelling.
The noise started suddenly, a loud banging that was worse when accelerating and the car felt like it was struggling. The Mercedes roadside assistance turned the car on and immediately said that the issue was with the engine due to the noise.
BoristheBounce
Active Member
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2017
- Messages
- 635
- Location
- Yorkshire Dales-Wensleydale-Gromit
- Car
- EQC 400 4Matic AMG in Brilliant Blue SL400 AMG Sport in Polar White
I am no engineer but can't see how putting diesel in a petrol car would cause that amount of mechanical damage to the extent of having swarf in the oil!
I've put petrol in a diesel (far worse) and run it up the motorway until it stopped and it was fine afterwards.
I've put petrol in a diesel (far worse) and run it up the motorway until it stopped and it was fine afterwards.
Paradroid
Member
Sorry to hear about all this, absolutely shocking scenario. Hope you can get to the bottom of it, it does sound like the car somehow has diesel in the tank before being delivered to you.
I have had a similar experience with lease, they just pick up from a dock and deliver straight to customer. Usually covered in sand/dust/salt/fuel vapours and whatever else is at the port. Very disappointing. But mine didn't have dents, that's totally unacceptable.
You have probably Googled the scenario but putting D in a P car is not usually catastrophic as doing it the other way round.
"Putting diesel in a petrol car is the less serious mistake to make, and the damage is usually not so severe. What damage can it cause? If the engine is started the diesel will coat the spark plugs and the fuel system - typical diesel in a petrol car symptoms include the vehicle misfiring. Other signs of the wrong fuel in a car include the engine smoking and of course, the vehicle stopping. The engine may cut out or fail to start at all "
"Luckily, putting diesel in a petrol engine isn’t as bad as the other way around. Because diesel needs to be compressed before it’ll ignite, chances are you won’t even be able to start the engine"
If the diesel nozzle wont go into the petrol's filler then it must have put there via a fuel can or funnel , your problem is to find out how that could have possibly have happened. If what the dealership are saying is true then the only places it could came from is the delivery company topping it up to get to a fuel station or a fuel station having some of the wrong fuel in their tanks but i am sure if that was the case then there would have been numerous affected vehicles and it would have been in the local media and splashed all over social media.
Good luck with the forthcoming battle , looks like you are going to need it.
K
"Putting diesel in a petrol car is the less serious mistake to make, and the damage is usually not so severe. What damage can it cause? If the engine is started the diesel will coat the spark plugs and the fuel system - typical diesel in a petrol car symptoms include the vehicle misfiring. Other signs of the wrong fuel in a car include the engine smoking and of course, the vehicle stopping. The engine may cut out or fail to start at all "
"Luckily, putting diesel in a petrol engine isn’t as bad as the other way around. Because diesel needs to be compressed before it’ll ignite, chances are you won’t even be able to start the engine"
If the diesel nozzle wont go into the petrol's filler then it must have put there via a fuel can or funnel , your problem is to find out how that could have possibly have happened. If what the dealership are saying is true then the only places it could came from is the delivery company topping it up to get to a fuel station or a fuel station having some of the wrong fuel in their tanks but i am sure if that was the case then there would have been numerous affected vehicles and it would have been in the local media and splashed all over social media.
Good luck with the forthcoming battle , looks like you are going to need it.
K
MBCLKsport
Member
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2006
- Messages
- 50
- Car
- CLK
If the car has been filled up 2 (or is it 3 times) since delivery, is it possible for feed lines still to have 20 percent diesel if it was the delivery company that misfuelled?
Very puzzling.
a) should not be able to get diesel in the fuel tank from a standard forecourt pump
b) the car ran fine for 7-days after the last fuel addition
c) swarf in the engine oil
d) 20% diesel now found in the fuel lines
Definitely not adding up for me.
Diesel doesn’t ignite well in a spark ignition engine because it has very low volatility and only turns into a vapour phase when it’s heated. In a compression ignition engine, it’s the air heated by compression that ignites the diesel when it is injected into the combustion space at or near to the end of the compression stroke.
A mixture of gasoline and diesel may function in a warm spark ignition engine, but cold start will be very poor.
a) should not be able to get diesel in the fuel tank from a standard forecourt pump
b) the car ran fine for 7-days after the last fuel addition
c) swarf in the engine oil
d) 20% diesel now found in the fuel lines
Definitely not adding up for me.
Diesel does not need to be compressed before it ignites. Utter nonsense.
Diesel doesn’t ignite well in a spark ignition engine because it has very low volatility and only turns into a vapour phase when it’s heated. In a compression ignition engine, it’s the air heated by compression that ignites the diesel when it is injected into the combustion space at or near to the end of the compression stroke.
A mixture of gasoline and diesel may function in a warm spark ignition engine, but cold start will be very poor.
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2013
- Messages
- 2,294
- Location
- Near the forest
- Car
- Jaguar XF Sportbrake 25t X260; Mini Cooper R50
This is really the odd one. If the tank has a 66 litre capacity it would mean that it had 12.9 litres of diesel mixed with the rest of petrol. I just don't see how would it run like a dream on more than 33 litres of a mix before braking. Just doesn't add up. Something went wrong big time.
Have they done the analysis of the metal particles they have found in oil?
Have they done the analysis of the metal particles they have found in oil?
I think we are going to get an independent assessment done as they are really not telling us much.
Think I'd probably be getting my own tests done.
Something catastrophic has occurred in the engine to cause all the swarf in the oil, and that is most likely down to a lubrication failure. I don't see a way that missfuelling causes this kind of damage - its either oil pump failure or no oil. Maybe a ring breaking up (does that ever happen?). As basically a new car, you'd think something oily must have had a defect and let go.
Can anybody see a plausible failure route via missfuelling given the available evidence?
The missfuelling is probably a red herring, but sadly is a get out of jail free card, but I'd get my own test done just to be sure.
Something catastrophic has occurred in the engine to cause all the swarf in the oil, and that is most likely down to a lubrication failure. I don't see a way that missfuelling causes this kind of damage - its either oil pump failure or no oil. Maybe a ring breaking up (does that ever happen?). As basically a new car, you'd think something oily must have had a defect and let go.
Can anybody see a plausible failure route via missfuelling given the available evidence?
The missfuelling is probably a red herring, but sadly is a get out of jail free card, but I'd get my own test done just to be sure.
I think I'd take the sample from the fuel filter rather than the tank. Or samples from different points. The tank may have been contaminated after the event!
MBCLKsport
Member
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2006
- Messages
- 50
- Car
- CLK
I was thinking the same. Unlikely any diesel would be left in tank/fuel lines if it was the delivery company at fault for misfuelling.
Contimanation is possible at petrol station but again unlikely to be anything near 20 percent.
Mercedes had the car for 4 weeks - possible they topped it up at some point from a jerry can and has nothing to do with the actual engine issue.
its a definite possibility but incredibly difficult to prove! I'll feel better once the car is out of the dealership and with someone independent.
Benz17
MB Enthusiast
Would Mercedes really “sabotage”, to get out of their obligation.
Also on the German forum there is a thread of 52 pages regarding inferior oil pumps causing engine failure, but they report its only effecting the E350d and E400d inline 6 engines.
Also on the German forum there is a thread of 52 pages regarding inferior oil pumps causing engine failure, but they report its only effecting the E350d and E400d inline 6 engines.
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2016
- Messages
- 4,708
- Location
- leicestershire
- Car
- R230 SL500 in teal blue, R231 SL500 in black. (Vauxhall insignia diesel now sold) Black Ford Mondeo
Is it possible to work through your receipts and mileage done/mpg to estimate how much fuel should be left in the car? So if you think it should have half a tank and when you pick it up it has a full tank you'll know someone has put extra fuel in since it was out of your hands??
Dickster
MB Enthusiast
As others have said diesel in there is not catastrophic. I did it to a motor bike and it just produces a lot of smoke immediately. I researched it at the time and found a small amount would not be an issue. I decided to drain it anyway.
diesel has oil content (hence the smoke) so why would it trash the motor? Petrol does not and quite quickly ruins the pump in a diesel motor.
someone is telling porkies.
ps it would be like running two stroke fuel in a four stroke motor...
diesel has oil content (hence the smoke) so why would it trash the motor? Petrol does not and quite quickly ruins the pump in a diesel motor.
someone is telling porkies.
ps it would be like running two stroke fuel in a four stroke motor...
Last edited:
Dickster
MB Enthusiast
What to do if you put the wrong fuel in your car | The AA
Put the wrong fuel in your vehicle? Do NOT start the engine. Follow these steps to reduce the risk of damage and get back on the road safely.
www.theaa.com
we will definitely be doing that as a part of the evidence we are collecting
Bellow
Hardcore MB Enthusiast
Diesel in petrol has the potential to do a lot of damage. It lowers the octane rating to the point where detonation is probable and likely severe. This can destroy pistons in short order if not suppressed. Suppression strategy would be to reduce boost (on a forced induction engine) and retard ignition timing (to the detriment of exhaust valves). Pre-ignition (HCCI) is also possible and would cause intolerable pressure in the cylinder before TDC.
If diesel contamination has wrecked this engine it will be through detonation and/or pre-ignition. That the noise was at its worse during acceleration and power dropped supports a detonation and/or pre-ignition diagnosis. The forces are sufficient to overload the oil film in the bearings and the side thrust on the piston during significant pre-ignition will destroy the oil film there also.
If there was diesel there that is.
If diesel contamination has wrecked this engine it will be through detonation and/or pre-ignition. That the noise was at its worse during acceleration and power dropped supports a detonation and/or pre-ignition diagnosis. The forces are sufficient to overload the oil film in the bearings and the side thrust on the piston during significant pre-ignition will destroy the oil film there also.
If there was diesel there that is.
