HID Upgrades

[Chas]

Not if you use the ones I suggest....

Always read the small print......... the Devil is in the detail

Help zone*::*HIDS4U Ltd - UK's Number 1 HID Conversion Kit Specialists

Technical for HID Conversion Kits
Please remember that it is your responsibility to ensure that the items purchased are suitable for your vehicle make/model and that the use of said items complies with all applicable laws in your Country. In the UK, fitting an aftermarket HID kit is not technically road legal as you are replacing a halogen bulb with an HID bulb, because of this the HID bulb cannot be E marked, which is a requirement for it to be road legal. Therefore our HID kits are sold for off-road use only.All technical information provided by HIDS4U LTD is given in good faith only and can not be taken as fact. HIDS4U LTD will not be held responsible for any damage caused to your vehicle from the use of any product purchased. If in doubt consult a qualified auto electrician or your vehicles’ authorised main dealer. This does not affect your statutory rights as a consumer.



However, thousands of drivers have them installed and they will pass the MOT provided the dipped beam pattern is horizontal or kicks up 15 degrees to the left, and there is sufficient luminance


http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_160.htm

 

[Baron_Samedi]

Yep and you missed the bit about H7R being available for cars with reflectors

http://www.hids4u.co.uk/h7r-anti-glare-bulbs-new-c-59.html

My point is not about the rights or wrongs of HID's being used in cars, but the use of what is in effect a high voltage discharge "bulb" constructed in the normal fashion with a beam shaping mask, the only difference being that the element is powered from a 35W ballast and not due to its self resistance drawing 55W off the battery.

 

[BTB 500]

Yep and you missed the bit about H7R being available for cars with reflectors

H7R Anti-Glare Bulbs - NEW!*::*HID Bulbs*::*HIDS4U Ltd - UK's Number 1 HID Conversion Kit Specialists

From the above

Many reflector type headlights produce too much glare when fitted with aftermarmrket HID systems. With this new bulb you will get a near perfect beam pattern

Note - "near perfect"

The arc in a HID tube (the light source) is not exactly the same same shape / size / position as the filament in a conventional bulb. This affects the 'focus' and shape of the beam when you put a 'bulb shaped' HID into a reflector that's designed for a filament bulb.

Same would apply to 'projector' lights - the light source behind the lens will change shape/size/distance to some extent, so the beam will be different.

 

[flango]

Ian,

Out of interest, if beam shape and light output is compliant on the MOT test machine, does it matter what created the light?

For example, would it matter if the slight ource were, candle, gas lamp, incandescent filament, HV discharge or indeed LED?

Or, do the agencies have a bee in their bonnet that the physics of HID alone is evil and will kill all children if headlamp levelling and wash are not used to tame that devil?

Sorry if I appear facetious but it winds me up that people automatically assume that HID = headlamp levelling and wash, as my contention is that a bulb is a bulb no matter what is powering it, as long as the light output is shaped by a mask.

I must add that I am not an apologist for people who misuse HID "kits" by installing them in non-projector headlamp units...

Think it may have been covered but

All halogen bulbs are tested and approved with the lens and reflector designed around halogen filament bulbs working to very precise tolerances.

The bulbs in HID aftermarket kits are not tested with any headlamp. Fitting upgrade kits will not create the correct beam pattern, causing glare in some parts and not enough light output in others. Also the gas in a xenon bulb is ignited by a ballast unit, using 27,000 volts, so there is a serious danger of electrocution or melting of any wiring with an untested ballast unit.

The security of any headlight conversion kit is inspected too as there are legal halogen upgrade kits out there. On HID installs most people leave ballasts dangling loose or scotchlok the conections Not seen this in the flesh yet but I'm told by most mot testers that even with projector headlights the beam patterns are usually incorrect. I think the problem is most testers just gloss over this area and as long as the aim and light output are correct they don't pay a lot of attention to the actual pattern.

Problem is if you pass a car which has aftermarket HID and beam patterns and everything are legal according to the MOT rules. You know full well that the HID kits are illegal, so if the car goes from the MOT test station and is involved in an accident and subsequently checked and found to have illegal headlights then bang goes your testers license and you end up in court. They view it as just the same as if you were sending a car out on the road after a service with defective brakes.

 

[Baron_Samedi]

From the above
Note - "near perfect"

The arc in a HID tube (the light source) is not exactly the same same shape / size / position as the filament in a conventional bulb. This affects the 'focus' and shape of the beam when you put a 'bulb shaped' HID into a reflector that's designed for a filament bulb.

Same would apply to 'projector' lights - the light source behind the lens will change shape/size/distance to some extent, so the beam will be different.

Liking your points Bill, thanks for making me feel better about upgrading bulbs rather than installing a kit.

The points you make about shape and distance are very pertinent!

 

[Chas]

I think the best advice is from the sellers who state that they are for off road use only, and are illegal on road

In the UK, fitting an aftermarket HID kit is not technically road legal as you are replacing a halogen bulb with an HID bulb, because of this the HID bulb cannot be E marked, which is a requirement for it to be road legal. Therefore our HID kits are sold for off-road use only

 

[Baron_Samedi]

Ian,

Your remarks are interesting too. I have on occasion looked at the wiring of cars of my Daughter's boyfriends with interest

The young men seem too eager to get something going rather than attending to small matters of safety...

 

[Chas]

From the worlds leading authority on automotive lighting...... http://www.danielsternlighting.com/about/about.html


http://dsl.torque.net/images/DSL_8885.pdf


High Intensity Danger
One type of improper light source bears special mention
because of its extreme capacity to be severely detrimental to
safety. “HID retrofit kits” are being widely marketed through
readily-accessible retail and mail-order channels. These socalled
“retrofits” consist of a D2R or D2S arc capsule (2800
or 3200 lumens, and one source is marketing “upgrade”
capsules of approximately 4600 lumens) and associated
electronic control equipment, with an adaptor by means of
which the capsule can be inserted into a headlamp designed
to accept a tungsten-halogen bulb. The massive degree by
which such sources exceed the luminous intensity of the
halogen bulbs correct for the headlamp creates tremendous
glare. The light-producing arc within the D2R or D2S capsule
is of a different size, shape and placement and, in the case
of transverse-filament bulbs, orientation within the capsule
than the light-producing filament within a halogen bulb.
The edges and endpoints of the light source are also of very
different demarcation characteristics (sharp for a filament,
fuzzy for an arc). This is why gas discharge headlamps require
different optics than tungsten-halogen headlamps. When a
gas discharge source is placed into a headlamp designed
to accept a tungsten-halogen bulb, extreme beam pattern
27
Low Beam Headlamps
Where Does the Glare Come From?
damage occurs. The effects on seeing light are highly variable,
but the effect upon glare is always severe and detrimental,
i.e., vastly increased glare. There are also electric-shock
hazards associated with the use of gas discharge equipment,
which operates at high voltage, in headlamp systems not
incorporating proper shielding or weatherproofing to cope
with these high voltages.
Lens Markings
The lens marking requirements currently contained in MVSS
108 do not permit the ready detection of a headlamp
improperly equipped with a gas discharge source. Especially
with the current trend towards one clear (nonoptical) lens
being used in front of several different reflectors or projectors
depending on vehicle equipment within and across markets,
it can be very difficult to detect an improper source.
Examples abound; one such example is the headlamp lens on
a MY2001 BMW 3 series, which contains markings applicable
to six variations of the headlamp assembly:
• DOT certification marks for an H7 halogen/reflector
setup
• DOT certification marks for a D2S discharge/projector
setup
• ECE type approval marks for an H7 halogen/reflector
setup for right-hand traffic
• ECE type approval marks for an H7 halogen/reflector
setup for left-hand traffic
• ECE type approval marks for a D2S discharge/ projector
setup for right- or left-hand traffic
• JIS certification marks for Japanese-market vehicles
28
Low

 

[Baron_Samedi]

Like most authorities, they appear to have written 400 words and told us nothing.

I think Bill and Ian have more pertinent information about HID's even the H7R type that simulate a transverse filament type incandescent bulb.

 

[bolide]

not quite correct, read here

Aftermarket HID (Xenon) headlamps

That confirms that the EU legislation is not relevant to retrofit HIDs. Under the letter of UK law is seems that all HID systems are illegal!

Nick Froome

 

[markmifsud]

That confirms that the EU legislation is not relevant to retrofit HIDs. Under the letter of UK law is seems that all HID systems are illegal!

Nick Froome

Not illegal, just not UK type approved. New ones are compliant with EU type approval therefore, they are acceptable for the UK market

 

[Spinal]

What makes them illegal?

If the beam shaper is present and 4300k is chosen, the light would look like Xenon.

And they are expensive, the only reason I chose Halfords finest instead.

As has been mentioned:
Aftermarket HID (Xenon) headlamps

In the Department's view it is not legal to sell or use after market HID lighting kits, for converting conventional Halogen headlamps to HID Xenon. If a customer wants to convert his vehicle to Xenon HID he must purchase completely new Xenon HID headlamps.

Now, if you want to leave the legal side out for a minute and debate the technical side, it doesn't matter how much you fiddle with the position of the arc in the HID, reflectors and whatnot, it doesn't change how different the light source it. An imge tells 1,000 words they say:

Ironically, after an email to the DFT a while back I found out that converting a motorbike's headlamp to HID is perfectly fine... (or was about a year ago, not sure if the rules have changed)

M.

 

[Baron_Samedi]

As an aside, Spinal,

Are there regulations governing the light intensity?

For example does anyone check the upper and lower limit?

Just curious is all

 

[Spinal]

As an aside, Spinal,

Are there regulations governing the light intensity?

For example does anyone check the upper and lower limit?

Just curious is all

Nothing formal that I know of, the only rule that is relevant is that your intensity cannot dazzle other road users - a thing that most HID kits I've seen to (not all, I'll admit... and I've seen some OEM ones that dazzle people, especially the Range Rovers in my area...)

M.

 

[flango]

There is an upper limit for the UK MOT of 225,000 cd anything brighter than this is a fail. At the other end of the scale low brightness headlights do not project the correct beam pattern so also fail.

 

[Spinal]

There is an upper limit for the UK MOT of 225,000 cd anything brighter than this is a fail. At the other end of the scale low brightness headlights do not project the correct beam pattern so also fail.

Thanks - did not know that! Live and learn

 

[flango]

Thanks - did not know that! Live and learn

Me too I have learned so much on this MOT cousre but it has been really good to separate the facts from fiction and urban myths. There have been some grey areas which I have had to discuss with my lawyer friend though. A lot of the MOT test is left to the interpretation of the tester but this in turn can conflict with UK law. THe outcome of which is simply dont leave yourself open to prosecution no matter how unpopular the decison.

 

[LisleR]

Can you give some details of prosecutions for fitment of retrofit Xenon headlight bulbs?