ADY1983
MB Enthusiast
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2006
- Messages
- 1,787
- Location
- Yeovil, Somerset
- Car
- 300CE-24 Sportline, MK1 Golf GTI Campaign Edition, Scirocco GTII
GrahamC230K said:
I dunno what about Top Gears new car only 26 miles and it needed a new clutch
I dunno what about Top Gears new car only 26 miles and it needed a new clutch
the occassional trip to the red line shouldn't do any damage as someone has already said as long as its upto tempreture and everything is ok......babying a engine and car is far worse,never going above 2.5-3 rpm,because and there will be a time you ask it to do a little more,because the engine aint used to it,something will let go
.....need to give a car a good blast down a motorway to help clear carbon build up too
............good examples..........question: which goes through more exhausts,the rep doing mostly motorway milage or the granny going to the shops and bingo ?..........believe it or not the granny's car would as the exhaust never gets upto tempreture to clear any condensation,therefore rusts easier ............another one example(and why you have to love speed ramps)............a man spends his whole time avoiding potholes in the road,kerbs and things,and the one time he didnt see the pot holes he knackers his shockers,why i hear you ask ?.........simple because he always avoided the potholes and things the shocker never travelled more than a inch or two,therefore it wears on that part of the shaft and corrodes on the unused part......the second it has to travel the full length of the shaft it goes onto the untouched part of the shaft and rips the seals apart in the shocker to pieces...and what have speed ramps got to do with it ? easy the make the shockers travel longer on a regular basis keeping all the shaft clean and corrosion free
.....need to give a car a good blast down a motorway to help clear carbon build up too ............good examples..........question: which goes through more exhausts,the rep doing mostly motorway milage or the granny going to the shops and bingo ?..........believe it or not the granny's car would as the exhaust never gets upto tempreture to clear any condensation,therefore rusts easier ............another one example(and why you have to love speed ramps)............a man spends his whole time avoiding potholes in the road,kerbs and things,and the one time he didnt see the pot holes he knackers his shockers,why i hear you ask ?.........simple because he always avoided the potholes and things the shocker never travelled more than a inch or two,therefore it wears on that part of the shaft and corrodes on the unused part......the second it has to travel the full length of the shaft it goes onto the untouched part of the shaft and rips the seals apart in the shocker to pieces...and what have speed ramps got to do with it ? easy the make the shockers travel longer on a regular basis keeping all the shaft clean and corrosion free
glojo
Hardcore MB Enthusiast
wallingd said:
First off,
Why over rev the engine?
Hi wallingd,
I would generally disagree with your mother, solely on the grounds that we are talking about 'flooring' the accelerator to get it revving into the red zone. This will risk wheelspin, loss of grip, possible dsamage to the engine, plus of course drawing attention to yourself?
John
jayrash
New Member
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2006
- Messages
- 14
- Car
- W124 E300 1992
Fine with some precaution.
No doubt revving an engine into the red is not the best of ways to treat your engine. Yet if you are sure of the timing belt/chain, quality/quantity of oil, valve adjusted to specs if solid lifters and have a smooth engine, well you can rev it up to 600, 800 rpms into the red with no worries very day. Just don’t do it in high gears (1st, 2nd and even sometimes 3rd are all fine.). Thing is, if ur engine isn’t tuned for top end power there isn’t much point in doing it.
I have a 1980 w123 280ce with over 400000Km on the clock, 6 years ago I modded its cam shafts (not springs, just cams) to give me power at higher rpms. I have been revving it to 7100 rpm (redline starts at 6500) each & every day. Still fine.
One more thing if ur car has hydraulic lifters don’t go more than 700 over revs as those lifters tend to float at high rpms. (Bad).
No doubt revving an engine into the red is not the best of ways to treat your engine. Yet if you are sure of the timing belt/chain, quality/quantity of oil, valve adjusted to specs if solid lifters and have a smooth engine, well you can rev it up to 600, 800 rpms into the red with no worries very day. Just don’t do it in high gears (1st, 2nd and even sometimes 3rd are all fine.). Thing is, if ur engine isn’t tuned for top end power there isn’t much point in doing it.
I have a 1980 w123 280ce with over 400000Km on the clock, 6 years ago I modded its cam shafts (not springs, just cams) to give me power at higher rpms. I have been revving it to 7100 rpm (redline starts at 6500) each & every day. Still fine.
One more thing if ur car has hydraulic lifters don’t go more than 700 over revs as those lifters tend to float at high rpms. (Bad).
GSBellew
Active Member
Howard said:Whats the point of taking the car into the redline ?
peak power is developed a little below the redline ....
Not always, last time I had my G40 rolling roaded the rev limiter was the only thing stopping the power climbing, although thats not a fair comparison.
In a "normal" car peak power is indeed developed much lower down the rev range, indeed in most cars the power will have tailed off by the redline so it is an utterly pointless thing to do really.
jayrash
New Member
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2006
- Messages
- 14
- Car
- W124 E300 1992
Car manufacturers play it safe....
The certainly do not, my E300 has been chipped (210 bhp instead of 188) and revving to 7000rpms for over 110000 miles and still going strong. U just have to know that now it is being run closer to its limits and simply service it more carefully that’s all. My e300 has now 205000 miles on the clock and it is still as powerful as new and only consumes 1 liter of oil for every 3100 miles of high revving abuse. Believe me you will be amazed at what engines especially German ones can cope with. I am not saying drive it like you stole it but u can still have fun with it. Guys u live in Europe or America were ur cars are rather pampered compared to where I live. Every day coming home I take an almost 700meter shortcut up thru the mountain, this shortcut is a 33% steep climb (every 10 meters you go up 3.3 meters in elevation) every day for the last 6 years in my e300 not to mention my 280ce which I’ve owned for over 16 years. To give you an idea of the stress my e300 can barely top 85kph floored going up this shortcut, even my friends Mitsu EVO6 with bost at 1.3 bar (ie 320bhp) has never gone beyond 125kph. Believe me engines are built to take a pounding or a dozen.
Do u think car manufacturers give you an engine built to its limits?OzC36 said:
The certainly do not, my E300 has been chipped (210 bhp instead of 188) and revving to 7000rpms for over 110000 miles and still going strong. U just have to know that now it is being run closer to its limits and simply service it more carefully that’s all. My e300 has now 205000 miles on the clock and it is still as powerful as new and only consumes 1 liter of oil for every 3100 miles of high revving abuse. Believe me you will be amazed at what engines especially German ones can cope with. I am not saying drive it like you stole it but u can still have fun with it. Guys u live in Europe or America were ur cars are rather pampered compared to where I live. Every day coming home I take an almost 700meter shortcut up thru the mountain, this shortcut is a 33% steep climb (every 10 meters you go up 3.3 meters in elevation) every day for the last 6 years in my e300 not to mention my 280ce which I’ve owned for over 16 years. To give you an idea of the stress my e300 can barely top 85kph floored going up this shortcut, even my friends Mitsu EVO6 with bost at 1.3 bar (ie 320bhp) has never gone beyond 125kph. Believe me engines are built to take a pounding or a dozen.
jayrash,
That's pretty impressive performance and reliability from your engine! I like hearing these sorts of stories. As you say, it certainly illustrates that there are some good safety margins built into these Merc engines. Your car has the straight six M104 engine that normally has the redline at 6200 RPM?
That's pretty impressive performance and reliability from your engine! I like hearing these sorts of stories. As you say, it certainly illustrates that there are some good safety margins built into these Merc engines. Your car has the straight six M104 engine that normally has the redline at 6200 RPM?
The 'standard' single cam 300 is the M103 rated at around 188hp ; the M104 is the twin-cam 24V version which comes in 280 , 300-24V and 320 variants ranging from just under 200hp in 280 guise to 230-240odd hp in 300-24 and 320 guises .
Since the bottom ends of these two engine types are pretty much the same with only the head changing it can be seen that the M103 is very conservatively rated.
The original M104 in my red estate car was only replaced last year at 370,000 miles due to high oil consumption , which is not bad going at all . All other major components on the car are still original.
Since the bottom ends of these two engine types are pretty much the same with only the head changing it can be seen that the M103 is very conservatively rated.
The original M104 in my red estate car was only replaced last year at 370,000 miles due to high oil consumption , which is not bad going at all . All other major components on the car are still original.
And not to mention, the M104 in my C36 started life on the production line at Mercedes as a C280. Then it was bored and stroked by AMG (like you've never been stroked before) to produce 206 kW (280 PS) at 5750 RPM and 385 Nm at 4000-4750 RPM!
Edit: Ah Ha! I see Pontoneer is on the ball with his latest post!
Edit: Ah Ha! I see Pontoneer is on the ball with his latest post!
Last edited:
JonLittlechild
Member
I used to have a friend who was on the engine design team for Ford here in the UK. He once told me that during the prototype stage, one of the tests for an engine was to stick it onto a dyno and run it at maximum revs for seven days non-stop. Once that was done, the engine was completely stripped and there must have been no signs of wear or damage.
Therefore, I can only conclude that the occassional trip into the red zone does so little harm compared to what the manufacturer has allowed in the design and testing of an engine that it really doesn't matter. There's no way that even during a long life, the average engine is going to have clocked up 168 hours (which is seven days) in the red.... over twenty years that would be over 82 seconds every single day.
Jon
Therefore, I can only conclude that the occassional trip into the red zone does so little harm compared to what the manufacturer has allowed in the design and testing of an engine that it really doesn't matter. There's no way that even during a long life, the average engine is going to have clocked up 168 hours (which is seven days) in the red.... over twenty years that would be over 82 seconds every single day.
Jon
