I've Seen the Future

[hawk20]

Who said ‘I’ve seen the future and it works?’ I can’t remember.

But I think the almost sixfold increase in fuel prices since the $25 dollars a barrel of 1998, is bringing the future towards us at great speed. As is the near universal acceptance of man being a major cause of climate change. These two factors are crystallizing minds like never before on how to build more efficient engines and cars.

MB intends to achieve diesels as clean as petrols, and petrols as economic as diesels. And in recent articles and Press releases MB have given us real glimpses of the future

First out of the blocks will be the stunning new 2.2 litre diesel that MB are bringing out in the autumn this year in the C class which will offer the performance of a 320cdi S class with less emissions than the smallest A class! Amazing.

And it will fit cars with engines East/West. Likely that will be in the new A’s and B’s coming in 2011 and before that will be in the new E class and the GLK.

http://benzinsider.com
http://www.worldcarfans.com/9080410.007/new-mercedes-4-cylinder-diesel-engine
http://mbclub.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=50827

The electric Smart car is on the way and lots of hybrids and semi hybrids with regenerative braking and engines that auto cut-off at the lights etc (some A’s and B’s will have that this autumn)

For more on the future from MB this is a great link: -

http://www.emercedesbenz.com/Jun08/13_001194_Mercedes_Benz_Road_To_The_Future_Modular_Technologies_For_A_Clean_Future_Of_The_Premium_Automobile.html

Question is going to be, with such rapid technological change, what effect on residuals and at what point does it pay to join in and buy the new stuff and dump the old?

 

[Ratz]

The question you pose at the end is a very good one, my insurance policy so to speak is a new bicycle that I have been using to do the 22 mile round trip to work each day. Like most people I can't ignore the increase in fuel prices despite being relatively well off, and as you say the adverse effect on the value of my car(which is one of the better ones for its size). However, as I have learnt the hard way on many an occasion there is no good point at which to jump to the next technology, it's always going to cost plenty. I recently put my car up for sale with a view to buying something else, but then because the market is dead at the moment I have decided to stay with it and enjoy it.

As a measure of resale values at the moment I was talking to a trader friend who regularly attends auctions. The example he cited was a 2004 '54' BMW X5 3.0i(petrol), with all the right toys, one owner, FSH, in a good colour - book(Glass's) price £15,750. Bidding started and stopped at £10k with no bidders. Not wanting to upset anyone on here, but my conclusion at the moment is to stay with what you have until the market settles down.

 

[ceejaySL]

Engineers solve problems - and are driven by the commercial forces. Having developed diesels to a degree when they became the preference due to better economy, better power delivery and cheaper fuel - diesel price increases - so petrol engines get better developed.....

It will be interesting to see the outcome of which technology comes to the fore as the cleanest/ most economical. Fuel cells/ hybrid/ electric..... many takers awaiting the commercial force.

I have been running a hybrid electric Lexus RX400h for the last six months. a) because it is cleaner on emissions and b) because I could raise two fingers to Kens Charge. It is significantly more economical than big 4X4 in town traffic, and much the same on a long run. But it is zero emission when it matters - in traffic.

While government is to suck to its commitment of reducing emissions, it will surely price cars out of the market (and of course benefit from being alowed to run better second homes on the cash generated) whilst forgetting limited alternatives.

I also cycle, and have started going to work when I can at the office - a mere 4.5 mile round trip. I also use a motorcycle, which I think will be the next big thing in personal transport in the future.

Remember the 70's oil crisis?

What happend - it was not acceptable to the US market and the US government manipulated the supply of oil for that purpose. And still does influence the worldwide events.

I wonder where technology would be had it been driven by the $billions resource thrown into wars to maintain the staus quo ?

 

[A210AMG]

Hello


I'm cycling to work also, I live close so its no problem and the exercise has to be good

My ML has probably reached a pretty poor level now and its worth more to me, its paid for so I don't need to worry in a way. I think a lot of people are changing but not looking at the bigger picture.

If I sell mine today its lost a bucket load, if I buy something similar but more economical (derv) I spend more money, I then spend more money filling said derv up.

Might as well stick with what I know. Its great, lovely drive its like sat in my lounge. Like the high up position, fits everything in we can imagine. Tows our van with ease.

So cycling during the week at least I'm doing my bit and then using the ML at weekends / evenings

 

[bobby]

Who said ‘I’ve seen the future and it works?’ I can’t remember.

I know Prince had that line in his song "the Future" from the 1989 Batman OST

 

[amwebby]

Prince is quoting Joseph Lincoln Steffens, an American journalist. Upon his return from the USSR he said, "I have been over into the future, and it works." How wrong was he?

His wife, Ella Winter coined the version quoted on the title page of the 1933 edition of Red Virtue.

 

[jeremytaylor]

Remember the 70's oil crisis?

Yeah, I do.

Dad sold our Ford Fairmont Estate (Aussie Ford with a 3.0 straight 6 IIRC, whose jacking points were the bumpers - I kid you not!) and bought a LHD Citroen Dyane 4. Not the 602cc, oh no! He wanted eceonomy so got the 425cc one. Bit of a culture shock, I can tell you! But then he always used any excuse to justify swaping cars. (Sound familiar to anyone here?)

But back to the point, I am not going to swap any time soon, because the market is in such a poor state. Better to hang on/run it into the ground, drive less and more economically, and get the value out of the car that way, rather than get hit on depreciation.

 

[st4]

We still have control over the future to an extent, public opinion has been changed very slowly thru the 90's by state propoganda that the climate change, that is alegidly happening, is man made. That view can be challenged, and it should be more than it is. Even car magazines are at it with subtle phrases like "good for the environment" when testing a diesel car "the X6 is wonderful but my eco concious". Such phrases are defeatist and very new age as the bulk just buy into the Man Made Climate change model (MMCC).

Don't, and choose a government that doesn't either.

 

[Dieter]

Hi,

Every view can be challenged it's whether or not that (challenging) view is realistic.

Forget climate change as we are seeing the beginning of the end of (relatively) cheap fossil fuels and it's this, as much as global warming concerns, which is driving the technology for ever more economical/efficient fossil fuel propelled vehicles.

The OM651 twin turbo diesel 4 cylinder engine (http://www.whnet.com/4x4/om651.html) has 204 BHP and 500 Nm torque with CO2 emissions around the 140 mark...which to my mind is enough for most of us i.e. reasonable power with economy.

Cheers,

 

[st4]

I think in this case the challenging view is very realistic, and its current view that isn't but lets not have a re-run of old threads.

I agree whole heartedly about the comment about the end of cheap fossil fuels, and this is the need for them. Do remember that Euro 3 engines are more fuel efficient than euro 4 but put out more pollutants. Legistlation against more efficiency due to particulate burn off.

 

[Defiant]

Waitaminute..... there's going to be a future? Your television must not be getting the correct broadcasts.

I'd not be surprised to see today's ratio of internal combustion vs. electric vehicles reversed within fifteen years. And the effect on we enthusiasts will be much, much less than we fear. Perhaps there's a reason we've always called it "Motor" sports?

 

[st4]

I think electric power will have a lot to offer. Just think, Max Torque from 0 RPM, no interuption in power as we could go without transmissions and another, complete control over the handling balance of our cars, with wheel hub motors you could have all 4 working to give AWD but with a infinte amout of variation in power given to each wheel, with 100% being sent to front to rear or anything in between.

Shapes of cars will change, as a conventional bonnet won't be needed. A lot to look forward too, but in the meantime a huge transition....

 

[Frank O' Phile]

Who said ‘I’ve seen the future and it's Garlic Bread'? I can’t remember.

It was Brian Potter in Pheonix Nights.

 

[Dieselman]

And the effect on we enthusiasts will be much, much less than we fear. Perhaps there's a reason we've always called it "Motor" sports?

The effect will be minimal as the vehicles still move, in fact better than todays cars.

Some years ago I went to watch electric car racing at Mallory Park, which is a small tight circuit. The cars were home made electric cars but were still lapping at close to 100mph average.

As *** says, the accelleration of electric cars is phenominal. You need a petrol engine of 3 times the power to give the same accelleration.
WHITE ZOMBIE.

 

[st4]

The effect will be minimal as the vehicles still move, in fact better than todays cars.

Some years ago I went to watch electric car racing at Mallory Park, which is a small tight circuit. The cars were home made electric cars but were still lapping at close to 100mph average.

As *** says, the accelleration of electric cars is phenominal. You need a petrol engine of 3 times the power to give the same accelleration.
WHITE ZOMBIE.

Compare an Electric train to a diesel one. The electric one does accelerate incredibly quicly compared to the diesel.

For those who have never driven Internal Combustion engine the electric car will seem so much better. At the moment the range etc solution hasn't been cracked, but I have a solution thats already here...

Instead of lots of metal work we could use solar panels to cover large parts of the car to partially power the electrics. It may also solve the rust issue. Audi do this in the A6 to allow the fans to blow when the engine is switched off, lets take that idea a bit further.

Seriously, if we can see other advantages (ie being able to configure its drive train by varying the power each wheel hub motor uses) we'd have something quite special going on. Plus we could have cars with lower centers of gravity, (especially with wheel hub motors plus battery packs that lived in the floor of the car) meaning v. fast cornering plus all that Torque to power out of it.

Its the time now, to that final solution, that will be bad. The reasons for electric cars to work IMO will need to be a) financially driven b) consumer driven i.e. percieved as better than what they replaced.

a & b have not yet been reached, and won't be reached for sometime yet.

 

[hawk20]

Personally I don't see electric cars amounting to much until and unless someone cracks the cost of/weight of/size of/ range of batteries problem. Until then hybrids seem likely to be the more economic solution. And the dream of hydrogen fueled cars draws nearer and nearer?

 

[st4]

I wouldn't get to excited about fuel cell cars etc that emit H20. That will have a local climate effect and IIRC H20 has a greenhouse warming effect. If we start releasing lots of H20 due to cars won't we have quite a "steamy" local atmosphere and when it condenses water on the roads etc. I doubt this has really been thought through....

 

[Dieselman]

I doubt this has really been though through....

Don't worry, I don't think fuel cells are going to happen at all for a number of reasons. They are the smoke and mirrors being used to allow manufacturers more time with internal combustion engines.

 

[st4]

. They are the smoke and mirrors being used to allow manufacturers more time with internal combustion engines.

I do love a good consiparcy theory.

Me, probably like most others, if were provided with a viable and better alternative, would opt for an electric car....once that becomes available then bye bye IC engine....

 

[Dieselman]

I do love a good consiparcy theory.

I actually meant from the practical aspects of hydrogen generation and distribution as well as actually building enough working fuel calls given the platinum required for each one...

But I like your explanation....