K&N Filters Truth...

[John Jones Jr]

That says it all about your approach. Doesn't Carol Vordaman endorse Log book Loans. She's a mathematician, so they must be good...

Can you please share your development testing with us.

I am assuming you monitored the air intake temperatures, the EGT, the pressure drop and the performance change from each step.

Did you?

Wow.. One boat rocked

 

[John Jones Jr]

Mine is also a 230k M111 engine but I didn't fit the cone type as when I tried it the air intake temperatures were far higher than with the standard airbox on, no matter how I shielded it or run fresh air intake hoses to it directly from the front of the car I couldn't get the temperatures to match that of the standard airbox arrangement. So I just used a Pipercross panel filter in the existing airbox which seems to do the job nicely

No, no cone type on my C230K either, just a panel filter like yours.

 

[Dieselman]

Wow.. One boat rocked

Not at all, but if people make claims, it's good if they can back them up.

Your claims are rubbish and you have no data to prove them.

 

[John Jones Jr]

It's you that just spouted rubbish as I've absolutely made no claims other than stating I've nothing to lose by fitting K&N's, take it up with a professional like Dave Visard, after all he's the one that made the claims, as I originally said.

 

[almoamg]

I have the K&N's fitted to mine with a Carbinio intake system and have had no issues apart from a bit more "induction roar" I dare say if you soak the filters in oil and re-fit them then your going to have issues. But if you do what it "says on the tin" then no problems.

Lee, how do you find the Carbinio system? It looks a quality piece of kit which I've been thinking of adding. Running with BMC filters at present.

 

[Dieselman]

It's you that just spouted rubbish as I've absolutely made no claims other than stating I've nothing to lose by fitting K&N's, take it up with a professional like Dave Visard, after all he's the one that made the claims, as I originally said.

You said.

f1, the bottom line for me is very simple. The design has been proven, my 2.5-16 has a shielded cone one fitted on a cut & shut a/filter housing straight (all of 350mm) to the T/B, all the engine can do is gain power and the nice bonus is the induction roar. As for the C230K, there's no disadvantages to having one fitted and at modest cost and along with the opened out air box I might have a nominal gain too. On top of which they are endorsed by professionals. Win, win.

Your logic is flawed, your testing non existent.

 

[Rashman]

Lee, how do you find the Carbinio system? It looks a quality piece of kit which I've been thinking of adding. Running with BMC filters at present.

If you are seeking options, Renntech also do a CF intake.

 

[John Jones Jr]

I said all it can do is gain power, never said it did gain power. A greater cold feed area is not going to lower the power.

 

[Dieselman]

I said all it can do is gain power, never said it did gain power. A greater cold feed area is not going to lower the power.

I thought you were using a cut down air filter box, so no cold feed any more.

The worst thing you can do for an engine is feed it with hot air.

 

[John Jones Jr]

I thought you were using a cut down air filter box, so no cold feed any more.

The worst thing you can do for an engine is feed it with hot air.

It doesn't matter what you thought, the fact is very, very simple, I've got a far greater cold air feed to the T/B (as already previously stated) than the standard filter set up. Yes, I have reduced the size of air box (by cutting & shutting just to connect to the T/B) as the air box is no longer required except for both sensors. If, I've not gained any power (who knows, I don't), no big deal as I'd nothing to lose in the first place so I consider that a win plus the nicer induction roar is a bonus as already mentioned. Also too, it's worth bearing in mind the standard air box is a compromise between cold air feed and noise, I'm happy to have some more noise.
Nothing more to it that.

 

[Dieselman]

I have reduced the size of air box (by cutting & shutting just to connect to the T/B) as the air box is no longer required except for both sensors. If, I've not gained any power (who knows, I don't), no big deal as I'd nothing to lose in the first place so I consider that a win plus the nicer induction roar is a bonus as already mentioned. Also too, it's worth bearing in mind the standard air box is a compromise between cold air feed and noise, I'm happy to have some more noise.
Nothing more to it that.

Your logic is so far away from reality, it's dangerous.

1. Air box design is important for good airflow, so by cutting it down you have probably reduced flow and increased pressure drop.

2. Any increase of air temperature has a definite negative effect on both engine longevity and power output.

3. Without testing, your claims are invalid.

 

[Rashman]

Can you guys slow down abit... my popcorn just needs 2 more minutes. Thanks.

 

[SavMan]

Your logic is so far away from reality, it's dangerous. 1. Air box design is important for good airflow, so by cutting it down you have probably reduced flow and increased pressure drop. 2. Any increase of air temperature has a definite negative effect on both engine longevity and power output. 3. Without testing, your claims are invalid.

Surely an engine uses a far greater amount of air than the engine bay contains so at full speed the air will be moving and as such it will absorb very little heat?

I did some testing at Bruntingthorpe with 3 intakes I don't have the actual temps with me so these are rough from memory

1. OEM box
2. Inline filters using twin cold air intakes
3. Open filters (2x large cones) then straight pipes to Y on throttle body, filters over the headers

Now option 1 was and 2 were very similar starting temps at around 25C IAT with the open filters sitting around 43C IAT, so far so good cold air intake of both OEM & custom are way better.
Within 2 secs of a hard launch option 1 & 2 were at around 32C but option 3 was around 31C and at the end of the 2 mile straight option 1 and 2 were more than 5C higher than the open filters.

In order of temp lowest to highest option 3, option 2 & option 1
In order of max terminal speed highest to lowest option 3, option 2 & option 1

I have see the same on the road at slow traffic speed open filters in the engine are higher but as soon as you get above 30mph they even out.

 

[John Jones Jr]

Your logic is so far away from reality, it's dangerous.

1. Air box design is important for good airflow, so by cutting it down you have probably reduced flow and increased pressure drop.

2. Any increase of air temperature has a definite negative effect on both engine longevity and power output.

3. Without testing, your claims are invalid.

'dangerous' you say. Oh, the drama of it!

1. 'probably' you say..
2. 'increase', what increase..
3. 'invalid', again no claims by me..

Rock on

 

[RBYCC]

You said.

Your logic is flawed, your testing non existent.

K&N will make a bit more power in a performance build.
Changing from the TurboTechnics supplied Fram panel filter to a K&N equivalent netted about 7HP on a dyno.
Will all engines see an increase, possibly not but on a boosted motor where the intake air feeds the boost device, power can be gained due to less restriction and higher flow:

 

[markjay]

In the olden days we used to say... that K&Ns and freeflow backbox make for great sound effects, but if you want more BHP then polish the inlet manifold, replace the cylinder head with bigger and polished valves and-high lift cam, then swap the cast iron exhaust manifold with tubular one. In short, remove all the restrictions between the air filter and the backbox...

 

[John Jones Jr]

Surely an engine uses a far greater amount of air than the engine bay contains so at full speed the air will be moving and as such it will absorb very little heat?

I did some testing at. Bruntingthorpe with 3 intakes I don't have the actual temps with me so this are rough from memory

1. OEM box
2. Inline filters using twin cold air intakes
3. Open filters (2x large cones) then straight pipes to Y on throttle body, filters over the headers

Now option 1 was and 2 were very similar starting temps at around 25C IAT with the open filters sitting around 43C IAT, so far so good cold air intake of both OEM & custom are way better.
Within 2 secs of a hard launch option 1 & 2 were at around 32C but option 3 was around 31C at the end of the 2 mile straight option 1 and 2 were more than 5C higher than the open filters.

In order of temp lowest to highest option 3, option 2 & option 1
In order of max terminal speed highest to lowest option 3, option 2 & option 1

I have see the same on the road at slow traffic speed open filters in the engine are higher but as soon as you get above 30mph they even out.

Very interesting and good to hear.

 

[Chalpkin]

I own a C320 petrol and have K&N panel filters fitted to it for over a year and the Maf sensor is as clean as a whistle. I've used K&N's on my cars & motorcycles for over 30 years and NEVER had any problems, maybe one of your filters had a hole in it, or the airbox lid did not seat/seal properly (the filters can be a tight fit in the airbox).

 

[SavMan]

In the olden days we used to say... that K&Ns and freeflow backbox make for great sound effects, but if you want more BHP then polish the inlet manifold, replace the cylinder head with bigger and polished valves and-high lift cam, then swap the cast iron exhaust manifold with tubular one. In short, remove all the restrictions between the air filter and the backbox...

Nothing has really changed the above is still valid today

 

[Lee C63]

Lee, how do you find the Carbinio system? It looks a quality piece of kit which I've been thinking of adding. Running with BMC filters at present.

I have had no issues with it and it does look nice when fitted, i read some horror stories after ordering it but it fit with no problem. I got it from Eurocharged and Jerry stated he has run it on the dyno and made 12bhp....not a lot i know but not bad.
mine made good gains on the Rolling road day with the intake and the V4 Eurocharged tune....more than expected thats for sure.