Afraid not, Derek. R12 is now illegal and supposedly unavailable. Being incompatible with R134a which would finish off your rubber hoses and seals, complete replacement of them is required. Inevitably £££.
Kwik-fit air-con service
- Thread starter Carrotchomper
- Start date
Afraid not, Derek. R12 is now illegal and supposedly unavailable. Being incompatible with R134a which would finish off your rubber hoses and seals, complete replacement of them is required. Inevitably £££.
Derek ,
That was my understanding as well . However , some recent postings here and elsewhere made me wonder if I could 'get away' with a simple re-gassing .
There is a thread over on the MBOC forum where one member had a 1988 R107 420SL regassed without modification and apparently OK ; another had his 1992 W124 converted with seals replaced and regassed all for circa £100 !
There is also a suggestion that there may be 'other gasses' which can be put into R12 systems without need for modification .
Last night I had a look on the internet and found details of a couple of mobile air-con engineers who operate in Ayrshire so I'll probably ring one of them over the next day or two and see what they can do for me .
cidersteve
New Member
only just joined the club, but used kwik-fit for my saab cab last summer and the result was good
GazCaff
MB Enthusiast
I took my car back today and got it tested again, it passed the leak test and got recharged. The before and after figures showed it had lost nearly half of its refrigerant in about two weeks. When I got home I decided to investigate further and found fresh oil at the bottom of the condenser. Looks like I'll be needing a new one. 
Just need to find the part number for my CLK so I can get one ordered.
Just need to find the part number for my CLK so I can get one ordered.
I took my car back today and got it tested again, it passed the leak test and got recharged. The before and after figures showed it had lost nearly half of its refrigerant in about two weeks. When I got home I decided to investigate further and found fresh oil at the bottom of the condenser. Looks like I'll be needing a new one.
Just need to find the part number for my CLK so I can get one ordered.
Now thats interesting. Condenser is usually a common fault on these and w202s but their leak test detected nothing.
Now an aircon specialist would have refilled the system with a dye and checked for leaks with the probe and would have picked it up right away.
I had mine done at Kwickfit a couple of weeks ago as there was no cold air coming out at all. It had been done 14 months earlier and had been fine up to now. I also was quite concerned about the amount of gas that it required as the system appeared to be 90% empty, and these systems simply don't lose gas like that without there being a leak.
Looks like I will have to give mine the once over if it disappears again.
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OP
OP
Carrotchomper
MB Enthusiast
You've all concerned me now! Will keep fingers crossed and see how it goes...
GazCaff
MB Enthusiast
I'm going to be a cheap skate and try some Wurth air-con stop leak before I change the condenser. For the price of a can (£8) I've got nothing to lose in trying it. I'll let you know how I get on. In the mean time I'm going to clean the compost and road-kill out of my condenser and try to clean it down with some Isoprpynol. After that I'll give it a blast along the bottom edge with some clear protective laquer I've got kicking round. I've had some big bills recently and buying/fitting a condensor was not part of my plans!!
The G.F.P
MB Enthusiast
so will my 94 w124 be able to be re gassed
not had it checked or working since i bought it in 05
not had it checked or working since i bought it in 05
If I were you, I wouldn't bother and I would change the condenser....Ive had to change the condenser on a couple of previous models. They rot at the bottom, and as the system works under pressure, they cant be sealed.
I'd fit an aftermarket unit if you want to save on costs.
cleverdicky
Active Member
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2009
- Messages
- 148
I used to do this for a living, proper ac engineer not car regassing. And it scares me witless to read what garages do, and people are unaware of.
But that said, IF all is well and we're just talking of regassing why dont you all just buy the bits and do yourselves. You dont have to get into the latent heats, and vapour pressures at x degrees etc. Couple of hose connectors, can of gas and away you go.
Precisely weighd in refrigerant is really only for systems with a capillory tube as a metered expansion valve, like domestic fridges. Where as cars have proper dx and nice big condensers and even recievers. (you can't over fill by adding a little too much).
All the things I've read you can do easily and save yourselves from wasting money at rip off quick con shops.
These guys can sell everything and more you would ever need.
http://www.carairconditioningsupplies.co.uk/
By the way, back in the day I use to 'blend' R12 and R22 when I did the odd car regas, to get the right pressures and temps. It is an art! bugger to reclaim now though.
Note. POINTLESS leak checking before your system is refilled. And the AC should be off and equalised (both sides same pressures and ambient temps). Idealy pressurised with N2 to raise the pressure (force the gas out any potential leaks)
But that said, IF all is well and we're just talking of regassing why dont you all just buy the bits and do yourselves. You dont have to get into the latent heats, and vapour pressures at x degrees etc. Couple of hose connectors, can of gas and away you go.
Precisely weighd in refrigerant is really only for systems with a capillory tube as a metered expansion valve, like domestic fridges. Where as cars have proper dx and nice big condensers and even recievers. (you can't over fill by adding a little too much).
All the things I've read you can do easily and save yourselves from wasting money at rip off quick con shops.
These guys can sell everything and more you would ever need.
http://www.carairconditioningsupplies.co.uk/
By the way, back in the day I use to 'blend' R12 and R22 when I did the odd car regas, to get the right pressures and temps. It is an art! bugger to reclaim now though.
Note. POINTLESS leak checking before your system is refilled. And the AC should be off and equalised (both sides same pressures and ambient temps). Idealy pressurised with N2 to raise the pressure (force the gas out any potential leaks)
Roger Jones
Active Member
- Joined
- May 18, 2006
- Messages
- 824
I've had a Retro Pro conversion done for £50 +VAT. It works fine. I see many proud claims of A/C being "ice cold"; perhaps it's not as ice-cold as the original, but how important is that anyway, given that it is unbearable for more than a few minutes at most on those rare days when it seems so desirable? The guy who did it (a mobile service) was emphatic about R12 being a no-no, and pointed out that the system could not have been regassed since 2000, when R12 was banned -- more evidence of the fact that most people neglect their A/C, so it's safe to assume such neglect when buying a used car.
Phil Thomas
Active Member
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2009
- Messages
- 146
- Car
- 1999 E300Td Elegance Estate, 1993 500 SE, 1995 Citroen Xantia 1.9 td, 1997 Land Rover Discovery tdi
I have paid over £60 to indies after shopping around in the past. It looks like I missed a trick!
nickcc101
Active Member
Just had Kwick-Fit aircon recharge in Penzance. Recovered .470kg charged .850kg no leaks detected £45. Paid £65 couple years ago to local garage so well worth visiting K-F.
Sounds good and I may have a go at this the next time. But I thought the idea of plugging a proper aircon servicing system to the car was to also vaccum the system in order to get rid of any mosture in the system ?
Also how would you replace the luricant or do you get a separate can and add that to the system as well ?
cleverdicky
Active Member
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2009
- Messages
- 148
two things,
Vacuum pump is used to evacuate system when new or after exposure to air.
Two main reasons, moisture (water freezes) in the gas and is bad. Also 'air' is non condensable so raises system pressure and doesnt aid heat transfer.
Both of these combined with refrigerant can cause a breakdown in some electrical motor components and create a sort of corosive acid. Cars dont have electrical compressors. So a bit more forgiving.
Refrigerant 'boils' depending which one, at minus degrees, so is nearly always a gas and nearly always (well it should be) much higher than atmosphere pressure. So leaks if any should be out - rarely in. Technically it does happen but only certain gasses / systems /times. Should never do on a car with todays gasses.
So unless your car ac has had a new component and or exposed to air and a total loss of gas, one it shouldnt have any moisture, two a ' flush ' of refrigerant should be enough.
A vacuum does also aid a recharge as well as getting rid of any air / moisture on a new system. But none of this is necessary if your just topping up. It would be good practice to include a uv die to any gas, to trace future leaks.
Two, if your adding oil, too much can be really bad you only need to replace that which was lost with the refrigerant leak. Or the correct amount on a NEW system. But if your just topping up, how could you ever know. The oil is miscible which means it mixes with the gas and goes round the whole system. You would need a total gas reclaim, a complete solvent flush to remove all trace of old oil, and basically start again. But again you just add a reasonable amount if there is a need i.e. you've got a small puddle of it.
I guess this is what many are (implying?) they are doing.
Totaly unnecessary if your just topping up after a small leak.
Vacuum pump is used to evacuate system when new or after exposure to air.
Two main reasons, moisture (water freezes) in the gas and is bad. Also 'air' is non condensable so raises system pressure and doesnt aid heat transfer.
Both of these combined with refrigerant can cause a breakdown in some electrical motor components and create a sort of corosive acid. Cars dont have electrical compressors. So a bit more forgiving.
Refrigerant 'boils' depending which one, at minus degrees, so is nearly always a gas and nearly always (well it should be) much higher than atmosphere pressure. So leaks if any should be out - rarely in. Technically it does happen but only certain gasses / systems /times. Should never do on a car with todays gasses.
So unless your car ac has had a new component and or exposed to air and a total loss of gas, one it shouldnt have any moisture, two a ' flush ' of refrigerant should be enough.
A vacuum does also aid a recharge as well as getting rid of any air / moisture on a new system. But none of this is necessary if your just topping up. It would be good practice to include a uv die to any gas, to trace future leaks.
Two, if your adding oil, too much can be really bad you only need to replace that which was lost with the refrigerant leak. Or the correct amount on a NEW system. But if your just topping up, how could you ever know. The oil is miscible which means it mixes with the gas and goes round the whole system. You would need a total gas reclaim, a complete solvent flush to remove all trace of old oil, and basically start again. But again you just add a reasonable amount if there is a need i.e. you've got a small puddle of it.
I guess this is what many are (implying?) they are doing.
Totaly unnecessary if your just topping up after a small leak.
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The G.F.P
MB Enthusiast
1994 w124 coupe re gassed at kwik fit yay or nay
cleverdicky
Active Member
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2009
- Messages
- 148
what gas do you have - eg, 134a
what connector do you have (on the bigger of the two pipes)
As an example, you can 'top up' for less than 15 quid.
http://www.carairconditioningsupplies.co.uk/caraircon/product.php?productid=332&cat=27&page=1
If you need a complete regas, pump out etc. pay the money for peace of mind.
unless you want to do your own.
what connector do you have (on the bigger of the two pipes)
As an example, you can 'top up' for less than 15 quid.
http://www.carairconditioningsupplies.co.uk/caraircon/product.php?productid=332&cat=27&page=1
If you need a complete regas, pump out etc. pay the money for peace of mind.
unless you want to do your own.
I'd guess the W124 range , being introduced in 1986 , would have an R12 system
Perhaps later models would have R134a ? Not sure exactly when this gas was introduced , although I believe R12 was phased out around year 2000 ?
Cleverdicky , can I still obtain a 'drop in' replacement for R12 ? I looked at your link and saw a product called 'Freeze 12' which seems to be a CFC free substitute that can be put into R12 systems , but is showing out of stock on the website . An internet search did not reveal any other UK suppliers .
I'm not convinced that I want to spend a fortune replacing seals and the receiver/drier on my system , nor do I particularly want a dashboard-out job to get at any parts which may be co-located with the heater unit . I know the evaporator in the W126 is in the heater unit and pretty inaccessible , not sure where the receiver/drier is as the russian website does not mention it , but I know it needs to be changed if the gas is changed to R134a .
On the other hand , if I can get the system re-gassed with a compatible refrigerant/lubricant at reasonable cost I would be reasonably happy . Both ports I can see on my car ( one on the condensor , just behind the radiator grille and one on the compressor ) look the same , like a larger version of a Schraeder tyre valve .
Perhaps later models would have R134a ? Not sure exactly when this gas was introduced , although I believe R12 was phased out around year 2000 ?
Cleverdicky , can I still obtain a 'drop in' replacement for R12 ? I looked at your link and saw a product called 'Freeze 12' which seems to be a CFC free substitute that can be put into R12 systems , but is showing out of stock on the website . An internet search did not reveal any other UK suppliers .
I'm not convinced that I want to spend a fortune replacing seals and the receiver/drier on my system , nor do I particularly want a dashboard-out job to get at any parts which may be co-located with the heater unit . I know the evaporator in the W126 is in the heater unit and pretty inaccessible , not sure where the receiver/drier is as the russian website does not mention it , but I know it needs to be changed if the gas is changed to R134a .
On the other hand , if I can get the system re-gassed with a compatible refrigerant/lubricant at reasonable cost I would be reasonably happy . Both ports I can see on my car ( one on the condensor , just behind the radiator grille and one on the compressor ) look the same , like a larger version of a Schraeder tyre valve .
Rayny
Active Member
Just to add to this information,
I took my W203 in to KwikFit the other day - It turns out that it did not need re-gassing and they did not charge a penny for the hour or so that the car was hooked up to the machine.
I took my W203 in to KwikFit the other day - It turns out that it did not need re-gassing and they did not charge a penny for the hour or so that the car was hooked up to the machine.
SilverSaloon
MB Enthusiast
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2004
- Messages
- 7,758
- Car
- 1994 W124 E300D Estate, 1985 R107 280SL
i took my wife's picasso to Kwikfit over the weekend. £45 fixed charge for regass..... its definatly now ice cold. recommended.
