Legal Advice Required

[500E]

Hi All,

Need abit of help here regarding a friend of mine.

Basically, he hurt his ankle when going out to the cinema and was unable to drive afterwards.

He let his friend drive the car, although uninsured and got pulled over by Police. The Police gave his friend 6 points and a £200 fine for driving without insurance.

What will happen to my friend who owns the car? The Police said they may have to go to court or plea guilty/non guilty before hand.

Will he recieve any points? Or a ban? How does this work? He has admitted giving the car to the friend to drive who was uninsured.


Thanks all in advance - appreciated.

 

[jaymanek]

All on the driver AFAIK

 

[219]

I'm no expert , but I'd have thought the police would have charged your friend at the time if they were going to do so .

There might possibly be charges such as causing & permitting another offence to be considered , but still I'd think they would have had to caution and charge your friend at the time since they did actually make a stop .

 

[Swiss Toni]

Assuming your friend benefitted (does not have to be financial, a lift to the cinema would be enough) from his mate driving, the offence is likely to be "Using the vehicle without valid insurance" - very similar to where a business owner allows a driver to go out in a firms vehicle without insurance.

If your friend did not recieve any benefit, the offence would be "Permitting the vehicle to be used without valid insurance".

The Police have discretion in all things, so could elect to take no action at all (and it is the decision of the Officer who stopped the car), or they could report him for summons resulting in a trip to court.
I don't have the sentancing guidlines to hand, but likely to be on a similar scale to the driver (or worse if there were aggrivating factors).

For most forces, it would be Traffic Cops who issue tickets for no insurance offences, again likely to be as a result of an ANPR "hit", in which case, your friend can expect a summons.

Best advice?

Speak to a solicitor and ignore all advice on t'internet.

 

[219]

Are we saying that your friend , and the car , was not insured at all , and this is why they were stopped ? Or was your friend properly insured , just that the other driver was not insured to drive the car ?

If the vehicle was not insured , I'd have thought the police would have siezed it ?

 

[500E]

The vehicle was insured and my friend was fully insured on it (comprehensive).

But, his friend was not insured and was given 6-points £200 fine on the spot.

What will happen to my friend who owns the car?


Hope this makes it clear.

Thanks.

 

[del320]

My insurance - and I thought all policies - allows for any driver on a third party basis.

So surely your friend's car was insured. The only risk is that if his friend bends it, he mends it.

 

[Swiss Toni]

The vehicle was insured and my friend was fully insured on it (comprehensive).

But, his friend was not insured and was given 6-points £200 fine on the spot.

What will happen to my friend who owns the car?


Hope this makes it clear.

Thanks.

As above.

I am also surprised they didn't seize the car (is there more to this than you have been told?!).

Cheers

 

[BTB 500]

My insurance - and I thought all policies - allows for any driver on a third party basis.

I thought it was the other way round. Traditionally, as the policyholder you had 3rd party (only) cover when driving another vehicle with the owner's permission.

But IIRC quite a few insurance companies have dropped this now.

 

[para alpha]

Well first of all, Never ask for Legal Advice on this forum... The last time I did I had smart ar$e comments from gob$hites who didn't have anything better to do than raise their post count. I had the thread removed by the mods. Anyway, It has been covered by most who have posted before me TBH. If the drivers friend didn't have 3rd party insurance, they are liable to the penalties of the law sadly. The owner probably will be charged with aiding and abating. Probably with the same 6 points and between £100-200 fine plus court costs. Would have been easier to have got a taxi...

 

[Dryce]

My insurance - and I thought all policies - allows for any driver on a third party basis.

Not standard.

And the other way around - where you were insured to drive a car not owned or hired to you on 3rd party through your own policy has been disappearing from newer policies.

 

[flango]

Just spoke to SWMBO on this and your friend needs specialist advice or could find himself with a very heavy fine and points, as regards the driver did he accept the 6 points and did your friend know the driver was uninsured? and are the Police aware of that? Its a complicated one that could get very messy. Lawyer needed ASAP me thinks

 

[219]

Is it not the case , though , that the OP's friend , having been stopped , would have to have been at least cautioned and warned that charges might be brought , if not actually charged at the time - unlike a non-stop offence where a NIP can be sent out within 14 days ?

 

[flango]

Is it not the case , though , that the OP's friend , having been stopped , would have to have been at least cautioned and warned that charges might be brought , if not actually charged at the time - unlike a non-stop offence where a NIP can be sent out within 14 days ?

Only if the police questioned him during the stop, the driver of the car would be cautioned and dealt with by 6 points and £200 fixed penalty. Action would normally be taken against the owner, (if any were to be taken) after the event when the officer usuallly in discussion with his superiors decided what they were doing as this would then have to go to the CPS for prosecution as the owner offence (if there were one) would have to be dealt with by summons and court appearance, so if the police when they stopped him just dealt with the driver then the above would apply. However if they asked the owner if he knew the driver was uninsured then they should also have cautioned him beforehand.

As I said this could get very messy and professional help is definitely required as they could then work out what is likely to happen based on the conversations during the stop and also if there were any irregularities during the stop.

 

[Tyler Durden]

Well there's no point in a holier than thou style reply as Im sure this guy will learn from his mistakes.

As others have said its lucky the car was not seized also, that would have cost a fair bit getting it back alone.

Yes, the 6 points and £200 is now standard FPN(e). However the driver can also be prosecuted for allowing another to use the vehicle without insurance. This would be a court summons and the owner can also receive the same penalty as the uninsured driver.

I very much doubt this will happen though, Ive only ever know it to happen once that I know of.

Like others say though, there is no substitute for independant legal advice, BUT i'd not jump the gun, deal with it as and when it happenes or you might be shelling out money when you really don't need to.

Hope this helps...

 

[stevesey]

I thought it was the other way round. Traditionally, as the policyholder you had 3rd party (only) cover when driving another vehicle with the owner's permission.

But IIRC quite a few insurance companies have dropped this now.

Which leads to the question - has the driver (not the owner) checked his own policy carefully, with the owner in the car there can be no doubt he had permission.

 

[Swiss Toni]

I very much doubt this will happen though, Ive only ever know it to happen once that I know of.

It is a pretty common offence to be dealt with tbh.

 

[Aoraki]

If the vehicle was not insured , I'd have thought the police would have siezed it ?

I am also surprised they didn't seize the car (is there more to this than you have been told?!).

But the car is/was insured, so no, it shouldn't be seized.

 

[Swiss Toni]

But the car is/was insured, so no, it shouldn't be seized.

But because it wasn't insured by the person driving it at the time, there is a power under Section 152 of the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act (165A Road Traffic Act 1988) to seize the vehicle.

That there was someone else who had insurance is not taken into account - the power is there to take vehicles off the road that are being driven without insurance.

So, yes, the vehicle could have been seized (based on the facts as given) - but it is still up to the Cop on the ground to make the decision as to whether that is an appropriate course of action.
It is not intended as an extra "punishment" for the driver without insurance (although it may work out that way) - it is intended as a preventative power to take uninsured cars off the road.

 

[Tyler Durden]

It is a pretty common offence to be dealt with tbh.

Really? Ive been a copper over 6 years now and only known of it being used once.

Its very rarely (I didnt say never) used as the punishment for the original offence and the owner/registered keepers naivety is normaly enough.

Also on the point about the seizing. If someone else is present who does have insurance to drive the vehicle then they are supposed to be given the opportunity to drive it onward. If not the vehicle (this is policy, not power) should have been removed. Yes its down to the copper but questions are normaly asked if a no-insurance ticket is written and the vehicle not seized.