LEXUS 600h rivals S class?

[fuzzer]

Exactly my point! That is why I am so choosey about the tyres I use. If I were to spend most of my motoring time in town then I must agree that the Lexus is a haven of peace. My average MPH has been above 50 ever since I bought my S for long distance comuting. The hybrid will work better in urban areas with stop start, but out of town its just plain petrol versus diesel again, with little chance of regenerative power...oops said I wouldn't touch on the green issues.

Driving with a little anticipation should see the regenerative cycle working. Easing back when there is traffic ahead will make the display go to green when its going back to the batteries. slowing down just letting the car coast to a slower speed helps too and not using the brakes as much.

But , i don't see anyone getting better than about 30 overall with the ls600

 

[Shude]

For the 6 hours we had them mine was showing an overall figure of 28.4 mpg but up to 30 Mph it didn't use any fuel at all as it was all electric power. Over that it used just the petrol engine so at a guess I'd say on petrol it would be getting maybe 18/20 Mpg balanced by the electric motor using nothing.

The electric motor didn't run on "nothing", it used the electricity stored in some batteries that were charged by a petrol-powered V8 generator. If you had continued to tootle around at 20mph for a while eventually it would have cut the petrol engine in to recharge the batteries!

Why isn't this a plug-in hybrid?

 

[miro]

Here is a link to an interesting video review of the new Lexus 600h
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/videos/featuresvideos/209532/lexus_ls600h.html

Very stiff competition for the W140.

Hybrid is the new iPhone.

 

[fuzzer]

The electric motor didn't run on "nothing", it used the electricity stored in some batteries that were charged by a petrol-powered V8 generator. If you had continued to tootle around at 20mph for a while eventually it would have cut the petrol engine in to recharge the batteries!

Why isn't this a plug-in hybrid?

nope , the batteries only get charged on the regeneration cycle. Such as slowing down where they will be recharged. When they run out it just uses the petrol engine. The petrol engine isnt used to recharge them. Its a seperate system.

 

[Dieselman]

nope , the batteries only get charged on the regeneration cycle. Such as slowing down where they will be recharged. When they run out it just uses the petrol engine. The petrol engine isnt used to recharge them. Its a seperate system.

Are you sure about that.? The batteries would discharge as the amount of energy replenished canot be the same as that drawn from the store.

I understood power flowed both ways through the system either to the motor or to the batteries from the generator.

 

[fuzzer]

Are you sure about that.? The batteries would discharge as the amount of energy replenished canot be the same as that drawn from the store.

I understood power flowed both ways through the system either to the motor or to the batteries from the generator.

Thats the way it was explained to me.

 

[Dieselman]

Thats the way it was explained to me.

By someone that didn't understand the system I think. Possibly a Salesman..

The batteries would be permenantly flat so it would become a petrol car.

Any hybrid is lucky to recover 5-10% of consumed energy via regenerative braking.

The idea of electric motor propulsion is that it is more efficient for varying loads and speeds and there is no wastage when stationary.
The petrol engine is then used to recharge the batteries when it is running in a more efficient state,

 

[Shude]

nope , the batteries only get charged on the regeneration cycle. Such as slowing down where they will be recharged. When they run out it just uses the petrol engine. The petrol engine isnt used to recharge them. Its a seperate system.

The batteries would be permenantly flat so it would become a petrol car.

Any hybrid is lucky to recover 5-10% of consumed energy via regenerative braking.

The idea of electric motor propulsion is that it is more efficient for varying loads and speeds and there is no wastage when stationary.
The petrol engine is then used to recharge the batteries when it is running in a more efficient state,

I read that an electric car can get up to 10% more range from regenerative braking.

Maybe your first job as a new lexus owner is to drive up a REALLY steep hill (I mean about 10 miles of ascent) and then brake all the way down again! Great if you're in Scotland but expect Dutch sales to be low.

 

[glojo]

nope , the batteries only get charged on the regeneration cycle. Such as slowing down where they will be recharged. When they run out it just uses the petrol engine. The petrol engine isnt used to recharge them. Its a seperate system.

Crikey,
That doesn't sound very clever? I still feel it has been built to cater for the US market where they like big V8's and are also into the hybrid option. I would like to think that a diesel engine would be a better option regarding economy, but should it also be coupled to some very officiant charging gadgets?

Regards
John

Edit:
I have just read Shude's post and it made me smile as I was thinking along a similar vein, but my thoughts leant towards Lincolnshire

 

[Dieselman]

I would like to think that a diesel engine would be a better option regarding economy, but should it also be coupled to some very officiant charging gadgets?

The race is on. Will it be Mercedes or Citroen first past the post.


Place your bets.......

 

[kikkthecat]

Crikey,
That doesn't sound very clever? I still feel it has been built to cater for the US market where they like big V8's and are also into the hybrid option. I would like to think that a diesel engine would be a better option regarding economy, but should it also be coupled to some very officiant charging gadgets?

Regards
John

Edit:
I have just read Shude's post and it made me smile as I was thinking along a similar vein, but my thoughts leant towards Lincolnshire

Exactly. I think the idea behind the LS600h is to allow the wealthy to believe they are being seen to be green and ease their conciences a little. OK round town it's a zero emmisions car but on A roads and Motorways it's just another V8 gas guzzler. And in the market it will be aimed at this car will rarely have too much in the boot, maybe an odd overnight bag or a briefcase and a good job too as there was a battery pack in there that looked about the size of a 45 gallon drum and reduced the space by about half.
Now if they couple up the electrical and gearbox technology to something like a 1 litre turbodiesel and produce a car for the masses then that would definitely be a step forward. Surely building a car like this with all it's green credentials then strapping a great big V8 to it defeats the initial objectives.

 

[Dieselman]

Lexus Hybrid Drive

Found this booklet produced by Lexus regarding the 600h.
Two points to note. The system reduces noise, presumably by employing softer engine mountings and designing out NHV in the initial design concept. It can use softer mountings due to less torque being required from teh petrol engine.
The batteries are definately charged by the engine via the MG1, motor-generator.

http://www.lexus.com/hybriddrive/pdf/HybridPcktGuide.pdf


EDIT:

I like this comment..

Fuel consumption is zero when the engine is turned off and the
vehicle is operating in electric-only mode.

Not really so, something has to charge the batteries up again so requires fuel for that.

 

[Shude]

I would like to think that a diesel engine would be a better option regarding economy

If they could make a diesel engine start as easily as a petrol then it wouldn't be a big problem.

 

[Dieselman]

If they could make a diesel engine start as easily as a petrol then it wouldn't be a big problem.

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[miro]

Hybrids from Lexus use more fuel than BMW cars with no battery assistance.

Typical A-Class can run on 4.2L / 100 km if driven modestly.

These eco-marketing concepts are just plain old rubbish. Literally rubbish. The landfill footprint of a modern Mercedes is 5% of its material mass and the hybrids are 20-30% at this time. So not only do they use more fuel but they also take more energy and resources to dispose of.

Like everything that is stupid the global market is in Kali-forn-ya and that is the only reason this rubbish is getting the attention is has been getting to date.

I really dont know one aspect of hybrids which is vastly superior.

 

[miro]

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Petrol engines can stop and start much more easily in low-pollution designs. The idea of using a petrol engine to stand at a traffic light is being resolved by stop-start engines.

 

[Dieselman]

Petrol engines can stop and start much more easily in low-pollution designs.

Can you expand on that.?
Do you mean the actual method of starting or the seamless implimentation of torque once it's running.

 

[glojo]

Petrol engines can stop and start much more easily in low-pollution designs. The idea of using a petrol engine to stand at a traffic light is being resolved by stop-start engines.

I'm baffled by both your remark and Shude's. Yes diesel engines have a higher compression ratio so they might need more energy to start but to offset that, they don't need none of the electrical sparky bits? The latest Sprinter van has the option of engine cut out whenever the vehicle is stationary for 'x' number of seconds and will start the instant the accelerator is depressed.

The diesel powered car is still not very popular in the US and until they make the filling station user friendly for the diesel user then we will not see a practical hybrid vehicle.

As has been already stated there are numerous large engined gas guzzlers that are more econimical than this hybrid Lexus. I admire what they've done but it doesn't impress me. I'll stick to my S-class estate.

John

 

[BonzoDog]

I really dont know one aspect of hybrids which is vastly superior.

Tend to agree but in favour is the fact that Cameron Diaz drives one.
Read an interetsing article yesterday essentially about how this is becoming religious in nature and once you sign up to be a greenie, you have to accept all the dogma. This was from one guy, a greenie, espousing nuclear power, more urbanistaion and GM crops. It made sense to me.
Now how do you get a small nuclear reactor in an ML?

 

[Shude]

Hybrids while running on electric have all the benefits of any other electric vehicle:

They are almost silent and output no harmful emissions. With regenerative braking it is possible to reduce the amount of brake pad wear therefore less local brake DUST too!