Losing His License !

[GRAV888]

Surely if there were double white lines in the centre of the road as you state, NO-ONE should have crossed them

 

[robert.saunders]

It is lawful to cross solid white lines to overtake stationary vehicles - whether that's actually right or not in this situation..?

 

[GRAV888]

It is lawful to cross solid white lines to overtake stationary vehicles - whether that's actually right or not in this situation..?

Taken word for word from the highway code:

108: Double white lines where the line nearest you is solid. This means you MUST NOT cross or straddle it unless it is safe and you need to enter adjoining premises or a side road. You may cross the line if necessary to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10mph or less.
Laws RTA sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 26


I am a biker myself and we all do silly things.
I would would say it's 50/50 blame.

 

[Rory]

What annoys me is the fact that, this is where the goverment comes in, there was no need for a court case and certainly no need for a second court date. Why are people like my dad treated like this when a simple fine and points would suffice, and yet murderers and the such are either let out of prison early to commit more crime or simply decide to walk out of open prisons, somewhere a murderer really should not be.

I somehow doubt that, whatever political party was in power, your Dad would be being treated more leniently if he'd got out of the car and stabbed the Vicar instead of being involved in an accident with him.

 

[prprandall51]

Reported as fact: It was raining heavily and visibility was poor.

Fact: In stationary queues of traffic there is frequently someone who, through frustration or simply through knowledge of a better route, will either pull out of that line of traffic to turn right or to do a U-turn. Every biker should know this if they are going to "filter".

Fact (written as a biker): If you are filtering past stationary traffic slowly enough and take sufficient care, you will not get side swiped because you will bring your bike to a controlled halt using the brakes. You will furthermore perform this act of overtaking from a position well over to the right hand side of the other lane (nearer to the gutter of the other carriageway than to the stationary cars). The only reason not to is if there are cars coming the other way, in which case you shouldn't be filtering at all.

Fact: In heavy rain, a bike helmet's visor provides a poor view of the road. Bikers should adjust their speed and their choice of meneuovres accordingly.

Looks like culpability on both sides to me. But personally, I think the biker is the one who needs the advanced training, not the car driver.

Both parties failed to observe a hazard. Only one party was doing something dumb.

Philip

 

[SimonsMerc]

It sounds like he had reversed back out of view and was effectively now turning right across the flow of traffic and invisible to the bike rider.

The description given in this thread is of a single track road. Thus what you describe is impossible, and simply another example of your extreme bias towards the bike.

If your dad actually bothered looking properly before this second phase of the manoevre he wouldnt have pulled out into the bike. The bike rider wouldnt have had a chance of seeing the car pull out from between the other cars - especially if there was no side turning for him to be careful of.

As for assuming the bike rider was going too fast, thats just plain wrong - lets remember who's in court here and why..... I would say the evidence suggests it was far more likely he was going very slowly and carefully or he would have been injured in the impact.

Nothing to add on the rest of this; what Philip wrote above covers it very well.

-simon

 

[Uncle Buck]

I’m a biker and its smells awfully like another case of Smidsy Syndrome.

Sorry Mate I Didn’t See You. Usually where the driver also implies the rider was doing + 50 mph of his actual speed. I n this rare case it sounds like your dad was just unlucky and the conditions were poor for everyone, the vicar was clearly a decent soul.

Quite understand where Spikes coming from as you would if you rode a big bike.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Getting back to the age old argument of whether bikers should be riding down the middle of the road to get past a traffic jam aren't we .....

Time you got over it Howard or got a bike or moved to the US.

 

[glojo]

Doing a U-turn and contravening solid white line markings does not look good.

Marcos,
Get your father to get professional legal advice. Yes you may overtake a stationary vehicle, but the responsibility rests with the driver to ensure it is safe. Double white line markings are there for a reason... POOR VISIBILITY

U-turns are only legal if no other ROAD USER (including pedestrian) is inconvenienced! I was not there and cannot comment on this circumstance. GET A LAWYER.

I stand by my first post and say again, tell your father not to worry unduly. The talk of prison and bans are formal legal talk. If the rider is not seriously injured, if your father is not passed his sell by date Then a ban is most unlikely. Imprisonment even less likely. GET LEGAL ADVICE.

By pure coincidence an ex foster child phoned me last night, he was quite distressed and had done a very similar thing. He was driving a van and carried out a U-turn.

I have visitors so speak later

Good luck,
John

 

[Pietre]

Sorry but I must input my two pennies. It matters not who was doing what at the time of the accident. The offence was doing a U turn across solid white lines in the centre of the carriageway. I had this happen to me when I was travelling on the A20, yes on a motorcycle, not overtaking etc, and a car did a U turn in front of me. I hit the car and took flying lessons. The driver was done for dangerous driving as it was a bright day and he didnt see me, but it was crossing the lines that got him the offence.
I was taught when learning to drive that you treat a solid white line as a brick wall, you dont cross it ( i say single white line as only one applies to the traffic in each direction).

 

[Shude]

I was taught when learning to drive that you treat a solid white line as a brick wall, you dont cross it ( i say single white line as only one applies to the traffic in each direction).

Except that you can cross it to overtake a slow or stationary vehicle... solid white lines that is, not brick walls!

 

[Carrotchomper]

Just my two penn'orth.

Aside from all the bike v car ranting, the simple fact is that he cannot be imprisoned for driving without due care and attention. Disqualification is discretionary but unlikely.

If he was being done for dangerous driving that would be another matter. In this case he should have received a Notice of Intended Prosecution in the post.

I am a little confused as to why they allowed him to plead guilty by post, and now have a hearing. I suspect somewhere along the line someone has got their wires crossed.

Best course of action is to get legal advice, then contact the court and find out exactly what's occurring. Do not worry about having pled guilty by post- Normally this would mean sentencing in his absence. The court is unlikely to draw any adverse inference from this.

Good luck.

 

[micosavo]

It sounds like he had reversed back out of view and was effectively now turning right across the flow of traffic and invisible to the bike rider.

Since when are cars the same width as they are long?

 

[Mr E]

Sorry but I must input my two pennies. It matters not who was doing what at the time of the accident. The offence was doing a U turn across solid white lines in the centre of the carriageway. I had this happen to me when I was travelling on the A20, yes on a motorcycle, not overtaking etc, and a car did a U turn in front of me. I hit the car and took flying lessons. The driver was done for dangerous driving as it was a bright day and he didnt see me, but it was crossing the lines that got him the offence.
I was taught when learning to drive that you treat a solid white line as a brick wall, you dont cross it ( i say single white line as only one applies to the traffic in each direction).

Excuse my ignorance, but doesn't the same apply to the bike rider as well? Solid line = no overtaking, which would also apply to filtering? If this is not the case, could someone refer me to the appropriate legislation or guidelines that allows the ignoring of road markings by various types of vehicle? A definition of "filtering" would be good too - I'm sure that most could be enlightened by the proper definition.

 

[marcos]

Sorry for the confusuion here but he didn't actually admit to anything. He simply filled out the document the court sent him and sent it back along with his license.
As the road was in fact blocked at the bottom of the hill I think that crossing the white lines to turn round seems acceptable really as long as he looked properly.
The vicar was not injured and as said before it seems it was just one of those unfortunate incidents where you could actually put blame onto both partys.
The whole point of this thread was not to put the boot in on my Dad nor was it to make out that bikers are never in the wrong, it was simply to point out that the judicial system in this country is absolutely crap. It is fairly clear that the whole accident is one of those unfortunate things where both partys were slightly in the wrong, my Dad slightly more, but this could have been easily dealt with, instead it necesitates a second court date wasting more of my tax dollars and scaring the crap out of my parents. WHY

 

[prprandall51]

Marcos, judging from your avatar, if my memory serves me correctly, in 1972 you were a member of a crack commando team sent to prison by a military court for a crime you didn't commit (sounds just like your Dad's predicament). You then promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to the Los Angeles underground. Today, still wanted by the government, you survive as a soldier of fortune.

If your Dad has a problem and if no one else can help, and if he can find you, maybe you can help him?

That Vicar would look good in a semtex suit.

Just a thought.

 

[Sp!ke]

Since when are cars the same width as they are long?

Since when is a carriageway as narrow as the width of a car? Most cars can fit lengthways in a single lane of most roads - remember, you can reverse until the rear wheels touch the kerb and have a fair bit of overhang. In this instance the car would be invisible to a passing motorcyclist.

I know this fact to my detriment as I personally have had this happen to me twice. The first time I was thrown over the top of the car, breaking both my wrists in the process - the driver fled the scene. (Its not good breaking both wrists as you cant even wipe your own ****)

The second time I reacted differently and tried moving round him whilst hard on the brakes in an effort to save my wrists. I broadsided the car and had my left knee crushed between car and bike. Surgery was required and to date I suffer from this injury.

So yes, I do have strong feelings regarding this thread. This type of behaviour kills people regularly and your father is lucky not to have someones death on his conscience.

Everyone breaks the odd rule I agree. But once you step outside the law by doing a U turn when you shouldnt and then go on to cause an accident and endanger lives by not even checking its safe, there is a distinct possibility that you will end up facing undue care charges or worse still reckless driving (which can hold a custodial sentence).

Theres no point in bleating that its not fair at all.... he did what he did and has to accept the consequences. If this act was made by some hoody wearing scrote in his chavved up corsa would you all be so sympethetic? I think not.


Oh, and Marcos, I think you will find your father would have had to make a written plea when he received the original summons. If he plead guilty then he admitted fault contrary to what you have said. If not, he cannot plead not guilty unless he does it in person hence the summons to appear.

 

[neilrr]

Spike,

Given any thought to giving up biking?

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Marcos, judging from your avatar, if my memory serves me correctly, in 1972 you were a member of a crack commando team sent to prison by a military court for a crime you didn't commit (sounds just like your Dad's predicament). You then promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to the Los Angeles underground. Today, still wanted by the government, you survive as a soldier of fortune.

If your Dad has a problem and if no one else can help, and if he can find you, maybe you can help him?

I don't want to detract from a serious thread, but prprandall51 is a legend!!

 

[blassberg]

Should the bike not have been going slowly enough to safely come to a stop? Surely it's all about filtering safely through traffic?

I don't know this case, and I don't know Marcos' dad from Adam.

Safe filtering is considered to be +10mph over the speed of the line of traffic. So if they were stationary he should have been doing 10 and should have noticed the u-turn happening... And additionally expecting it.

(please God don't let me get knocked off whilst filtering now I've said that)

Regards Marcos dad from Adam I think Adam's not been with us for quite a while.