Lotus name to return to F1?

[RoseTattoo]

It is always the case that market occupants try to exclude outsiders by cost of entry. Thus Ferrari and Briatore's campaign. They know where they stand with the current competition although Brawn has been a shock and they certainly don't want more of that. But the new rules could breathe life back into the sport.
With names like Brabham and Lotus being bandied around it would make Ferrari and Renault even less of a loss.
The Beeb:
BBC SPORT | Motorsport | Formula 1 | Lotus name ready for return to F1

 

[wemorgan]

It's exciting for the name to return, but similarly to Brabham GP, it's just window dressing. As far as I know neither team has a genuine link to the heritage names.

I wish them luck though.

 

[Grease-Monkey]

Sad state of F1

Well both Lotus and Brabham went through different owners and personnel changes in their latter years, and both ended up at the wrong end of the grid in the early nineties, so I guess reviving the names now is no worse than where they were then.
Plus, F1 is now a marketing excercise on a worldwide scale, not so much a sport, so why not use (and abuse) old names, most of their target audience will be too young to know anyway.
Unfortunately, brand names are seen as more important than the substance or heritage behind them, so why not a Chinese MG?
I suppose we should not be surprised if one day we are offered a new Facel Vega or Duesenberg made by a third world company sticking an old badge on a cheap plastic hatchback........
Chris M.

 

[RoseTattoo]

Well both Lotus and Brabham went through different owners and personnel changes in their latter years, and both ended up at the wrong end of the grid in the early nineties, so I guess reviving the names now is no worse than where they were then.
Plus, F1 is now a marketing excercise on a worldwide scale, not so much a sport, so why not use (and abuse) old names, most of their target audience will be too young to know anyway.
Unfortunately, brand names are seen as more important than the substance or heritage behind them, so why not a Chinese MG?
I suppose we should not be surprised if one day we are offered a new Facel Vega or Duesenberg made by a third world company sticking an old badge on a cheap plastic hatchback........
Chris M.

Badge engineering has been around almost as long as there have been motor cars. One of the first I can think of is BMW badging the Austin 7 and post war Bristol re badging a nice BMW sports.
We used to refer to Japanese products as cheap palstic imports and then they taught us a lesson but I suppose one of the most modern pieces of badge engineering is the VW Veyron and VW Arnage.
Part of my point was that the change of rules makes entry attractive for many new more entrants and as of old, they are likely to bring in new ideas. Ferrari and McClaren seem to be a little tired and a rest may benefit them, although it is reputed that Raikonnen now does stay awake for most of the race.

 

[glojo]

Hand on heart, I cannot see any new name jumping straight into Formula 1 and taking it by storm.

Folks talk about Lotus, well what Formula 1 car dabbled with 4x4, gas turbines and huge wings? Was this done free gratis? It cost money to research these technologies and Lotus were the Mr Big that could afford all this expensive research and development; why try to stopit now?

Should we dump down this blue ribbon formula and have it dance to the tune of the lowest budget?

I always thought that Ferrari were merely the voice of the majority and how dare Herr Mouse-Ley lie when he said the majority had agreed with his proposals.. There is no way I can play with the numbers and make it the 'majority' that agree with him.

Yes the majority have signed up for next year but they have signed provisionally and have laid down terms and conditions.....

I said it at the outset and I will say it again ........A cap on the budget is daft. We never had it in the days of Lotus and we do not want it now

 

[JumboBeef]

Hand on heart, I cannot see any new name jumping straight into Formula 1 and taking it by storm.

I remember Lola having a direct bash at F1 in the late 90's, look what happened to them.........

 

[crockers]

Wonder how F1 would be if we had adopted the Gold medal for winning scenario....Button may have had it sewn up by July...t

 

[RoseTattoo]

Blackmail, pullouts and boycotts have nver resulted in much in sport; the American pullout at the Moscow Olympics, the banning of cricket players who joined Kerry Packer's circus and was it a baseball or basket-ball strike in America a year ot two ago, achieved little or nothing.
When there are so many new people wanting to get into the sport with good credentials where is the problem? Amost any new, small, innovative company can do more for far less and in less time than a bureaucracy ridden large company. All larger companies tend to becoem inovation stagnant and so new companies come form nowhere. In F1 Ferrari and co have had it all their own way for a long time. It is a nice, comfortable glamorous stage for advertising their products. Time for them to move over and let in some new boys.
At first I did not have an opinion either way but having seen all the fuss and having thought about it I see this as a bold new move. It is change and as usual entrenched interests resist change.
The sport has been much better for the new 2009 rules despite all the compalints last year and I am sure the FIA have got it bang on with the rules for next year.

 

[wemorgan]

The sport has been much better for the new 2009 rules despite all the compalints last year and I am sure the FIA have got it bang on with the rules for next year.

Certainly the Turkish GP saw some very close qualifying and free practice, with 1.5 seconds covering the whole grid

With KERS being dropped for the 2010 season I'm sure the racing will be easier to follow.

I do feel that Brawn GP need to find a big sponsor soon otherwise they will not have suffiecient budget to design a competetive 2010 car.

 

[Mr E]

The sport has been much better for the new 2009 rules despite all the compalints last year and I am sure the FIA have got it bang on with the rules for next year.

I would have to disagree with some of this...

Qualifying has been much better but the cop-out on the rules re rear-end aero (have a look at what is and isn't a hole) means that the intention of the rule change has been compromised.

The double-deck diffuser disturbs the air even more than the designs of last year. This means the cars still can't get close enough to overtake. Most of the cars were explicitly designed to run in cleaner air than they are now experiencing - you only have to hear some of the comments made by the teams.

The real issue is inconsistency, and I can't remember whether Briatore or Domenicali said it, but sport needs referees, not rulers. As F1 is more business than sport, let the market decide who can compete. Teams who overspend will either run out of money (a la Honda) or find that, because no-one wants to play anymore, the audience goes away too.

The FIA has done much to increase safety in F1, but has done a lot more tinkering in an attempt to make the spectacle more "entertaining" (which was the reason behind the aero rules changes this year) and politically acceptable (with KERS supposedly appealling to the Green lobby).

Bernie wants more teams as that equals more hospitality revenue and increased TV audiences - so the FIA tries to provide the answer.

 

[Mr E]

Now FOTA are said to be talking to Dorna, rights owner for MotoGP...

 

[glojo]

I think the stage managed meeting of F0TA and the drivers was a clear demonstration to Herr Mouse-Ley that Formula 1 is not impressed.

It is sad that folks are not understanding just how clever\devious Ross Brawn is regarding this 'hole' or orifice issue. It was a brilliant coup regarding designing this race winning item BUT as the technical advisor to F0TA Ross Brawn should have made it clear just how advantageousit would be to make use of this diffuser.

As the engineer\owner of the Brawn team it would have been crazy to divulge in detail just advantageous this modification would be. I have read that there are still huge steps still to be gained by the Brawn diffuser and that dirty air behind the Brawn will just get worse as the season progresses.

No matter the benefits of the double diffuser, it is defeating the spirit of the new ruling.

Lotus were crittas for taking advantage ofrules that were perhaps badly worded... I am thinking ride heights and wings.

 

[Mr E]

Max has sent a letter to the FOTA teams this morning - basically he says that he can't change the rules under sec 66 of the sporting code unless all the teams unanimously agree. So he wants the teams to unconditionally sign-up (remember that he encouraged them to put a conditional entry in), and then all the teams can decide unanimously to shelve the budget cuts proposed.

Seeing as Williams, FI, and the new entrants all signed on the back of the budget cut proposals, can anyone see a unanimous decision being reached?

He's back to playing games - prehaps this is a precursor to negotiations of a new Concorde agreement?

Here is Section 66:

66. Amendments to Supplementary Regulations
No amendments shall be made to the Supplementary Regulations after the beginning of the period for receiving entries, unless unanimous agreement is given by all competitors already entered, or by decision of the stewards of the meeting for reasons of force majeure or safety (see Article 141).

 

[glojo]

Max has sent a letter to the FOTA teams this morning - basically he says that he can't change the rules under sec 66 of the sporting code unless all the teams unanimously agree. So he wants the teams to unconditionally sign-up (remember that he encouraged them to put a conditional entry in), and then all the teams can decide unanimously to shelve the budget cuts proposed.

Seeing as Williams, FI, and the new entrants all signed on the back of the budget cut proposals, can anyone see a unanimous decision being reached?

He's back to playing games - prehaps this is a precursor to negotiations of a new Concorde agreement?

Here is Section 66:

66. Amendments to Supplementary Regulations
No amendments shall be made to the Supplementary Regulations after the beginning of the period for receiving entries, unless unanimous agreement is given by all competitors already entered, or by decision of the stewards of the meeting for reasons of force majeure or safety (see Article 141).

This character has been doing EXACTLY the same thing whenever it suits him... He laughs when he talks about how it is impossible for the manufacturers to ever agree.

My thoughts are that if you wanted to delay any meeting, then put two types of toilet paper in each cubicle. No one would ever leave the toilets... They would sit there all day trying to decide between pink or blue, rough or smooth

 

[Grease-Monkey]

although it is reputed that Raikonnen now does stay awake for most of the race.

I have tried Ferrari coffee, he'll be awake ok.
C,M,

 

[Grease-Monkey]

Hand on heart, I cannot see any new name jumping straight into Formula 1 and taking it by storm.

Folks talk about Lotus, well what Formula 1 car dabbled with 4x4, gas turbines and huge wings? Was this done free gratis? It cost money to research these technologies and Lotus were the Mr Big that could afford all this expensive research and development; why try to stopit now?

Should we dump down this blue ribbon formula and have it dance to the tune of the lowest budget?

I always thought that Ferrari were merely the voice of the majority and how dare Herr Mouse-Ley lie when he said the majority had agreed with his proposals.. There is no way I can play with the numbers and make it the 'majority' that agree with him.

Yes the majority have signed up for next year but they have signed provisionally and have laid down terms and conditions.....

I said it at the outset and I will say it again ........A cap on the budget is daft. We never had it in the days of Lotus and we do not want it now

Exactly, I think Max has lost the plot somewhere, maybe it is an ego thing but he seems to want to keep showing the teams who is REALLY boss.
Everything was working ok Max, leave it as it is.
Sure, some will come, some will go, but trying to change the rules so any Formula Ford crew with a shed and a truck can make the step up, makes a mockery of Formula One's past.
I put in more than fifteen years myself in F1, mostly before the Max years, and even with everything wrong with the old Balestre regime, we never had such daft thinking, it is time he got the elbow, and someone more in tune with what the sport is all about took over.
Chris M.
C.M.

 

[Mr E]

Well, the entries are in and there are a few unhappy bunnies...

What on earth is going on? First the rules can't be changed, now they can? One party can break a (secret) contract agreement (as did the FIA by not allowing Ferrari a veto to the rule change), a court decides that the other party had previous broken the agreement and so there was no grounds for complaint against the FIA over the veto, and then the FIA unconditionally enter Ferrari into the 2010 championship on the basis that the agreement is binding until 2012!

It is also good to note that Manor Grand Prix Racing's Technical Director is none other than Mosely's godson, Nick Wirth...

Appeals now going into the WMSC - perhaps it is time for other national bodies to take the same stance as Germany did and refuse to have anything to do with the FIA until the current regime ends.

 

[glojo]

It is certainly a very expensive PR game... We had everyone accusing Ferrari of being the odd one out and accusing them of being selfish. Now we have Herr Mouse-Ley saying they have signed up to the newagreement and it is now the old villian of the peace 'McLaren' that are saying 'Non!'

I think the truth is that non of the big manufacturers have said YES! to the capping.

Is Williams a 'Big Manufacturer'? I sadly think not.

The FIA are gambling big time and it will be interesting to see who blinks first.

What about a $100,000,000 cap and then gradually each year decrease the level? That way it can all be buried and forgotten about

 

[Grease-Monkey]

It is certainly a very expensive PR game... We had everyone accusing Ferrari of being the odd one out and accusing them of being selfish. Now we have Herr Mouse-Ley saying they have signed up to the newagreement and it is now the old villian of the peace 'McLaren' that are saying 'Non!'

I think the truth is that non of the big manufacturers have said YES! to the capping.

Is Williams a 'Big Manufacturer'? I sadly think not.

The FIA are gambling big time and it will be interesting to see who blinks first.

What about a $100,000,000 cap and then gradually each year decrease the level? That way it can all be buried and forgotten about

Far too sensible an idea glojo, I fear Max's ego will not allow such a back-down.
The FIA has really lost the plot now, and if destroying whatever credibility remained in F1 is the goal, then of course there will be no point in manufacturers staying, so we will have an all new look F1, a lot of unknown quantities, a few who go broke anyway, budget cap or not, and the big guns go to a new series, Le Mans, Indy or whatever.
A similar thing happened in the mid-eighties and Ferrari were not bluffing when they threatened to go to IndyCars. I know, because I later built the March-Alfa IndyCar.
This used the 2.65 litre turbo V8 engine Ferrari had already developed and was then rebadged as an Alfa when Ferrari decided to stay in F1, and Bernie knows this very well as the March factory at Colnbrook was leased from Mr Ecclestone himself.
Max of course, had previously been a founding partner in March too, small world innit?
C.M.

 

[The G.F.P]

strangly the last team i supported no matter the driver was lotus, evn when they were yellow

ive not had a team since and this season i chose BRAWN as i like the fact they would struggle and had jensen with them