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Luton Airport car park fire

What you are saying is that these cars wouldn't have sold in the numbers that they did, if it wasn't for the government's tax incentives?

Hmmm.... now where did I hear that before....? 🤔

Spot on…

There’s a reason the used market was always filled with diesel MB/Audi/BMW - and it’s not because they drive better than the petrol equivalent. They don’t.
 
Are we still discussing EVs on the Luton fire thread…?!

If you’ve got a spare half an hour then have a read of Carbon brief EV factchecks for a fact checked view on EVs, take up, sales, grid capacity, fires, carbon footprint, hydrogen/synthetic comparisons etc…
You’re assuming that people actually want to embrace change and aren’t going into the discussion with a fixed motive.
 
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Are we still discussing EVs on the Luton fire thread…?!

If you’ve got a spare half an hour then have a read of Carbon brief EV factchecks for a fact checked view on EVs, take up, sales, grid capacity, fires, carbon footprint, hydrogen/synthetic comparisons etc…

You are one of them, aren't you.......?

:D
 
Spot on…

There’s a reason the used market was always filled with diesel MB/Audi/BMW - and it’s not because they drive better than the petrol equivalent. They don’t.

The government encouraged diesel. The effect was a whole load of people who didn't benefit from diesel bought diesel cars anyway. The used market for diesels was healthy and depreciation on diesels lower. The effect was diesels became even more attractive.

Some diesels were not very good. Some were very good. I'd say that a 3 litre turbo diesel combined with a modern automatic was (is?) one of the best drive trains ever in terms of economy, performance, pliability.

EVs on the other hand have even stronger 'incentives' in the current market - yet unlike diesels are failing.

That suggests that if you eliminate the market rigging by the government that diesels in the 2000's had more merit from a customer perspective than EVs have at the moment.

So yes - in your words 'there's a reason why the used market was always filled with MB/Audi/BMW' and it was because these vehicles were *preferred*.

And if it was not for current government market rigging - they probably still would be.

Maybe manufacturers should wake up to this and make better (or better value) EVs. (If Tesla sold the S at the sort of prices people were discussing / hoping for on these forums for 10 to 12 years ago then the roads would be full of them - but that didn't happen).
 
What are you actually hoping to achieve by wasting your time writing these massively long replies?

Keep your rattly diesel - no one’s stopping you.
 
What are you actually hoping to achieve by wasting your time writing these massively long replies?

Well there was me innocently thinking that I was putting some useful effort into politely and objectively rebutting some false statements you were making.

I put in all that effort and it goes unappreciated ..... sheeesh!

Keep your rattly diesel - no one’s stopping you.

The car industry is stopping me - now if you could lobby them to improve the value proposition of their EV product lines then I'd take the jump.

And I'd like you to withdraw the adjective 'rattly'. My V6 lump is not bad in terms of refinement - and should it become rattly then chances are I will face a humungously large bill to get said rattle fixed. So please don't (a) besmirch it's current non-rattliness and (b) tempt fate on my behalf.
 
The car industry is stopping me - now if you could lobby them to improve the value proposition of their EV product lines then I'd take the jump.

And I'd like you to withdraw the adjective 'rattly'. My V6 lump is not bad in terms of refinement - and should it become rattly then chances are I will face a humungously large bill to get said rattle fixed. So please don't (a) besmirch it's current non-rattliness and (b) tempt fate on my behalf.
How are they stopping you from keeping your car?
 
Well there was me innocently thinking that I was putting some useful effort into politely and objectively rebutting some false statements you were making.

I put in all that effort and it goes unappreciated ..... sheeesh!
Fair enough - to be honest, in hindsight I’m in a bad mood this evening & fed up going round and round in circles.

I’ll check out for the night.

Have a good evening.
 
Is that not a London centric type of view? Try owning one in the north of Scotland or one of the islands, surely that presents far more problems than you have to deal with?
The canny Scots are the biggest users of EV’s. Not only is it very easy to plug in at home, the Scottish government’s spent millions on subsidised chargers.

Think about it. How often do you drive hundreds of miles in a day?
 
How are they stopping you from keeping your car?

Logic inversion on my part I'm afraid - I answered on the basis: Stopping me from changing.

I've kept my current 9 year old lump for two years longer than planned - and will keep maybe another two years all being well - and assuming that there are no draconian LEZ / ULEZ restrictions imposed where I live and currently work.
 
Out in the real world, there’s enormous push back on the EV transition. The folks who bought top ten selling cars and all those dreadful SUV’s aren’t anywhere near reaching into their pocket to buy EVs, New or used.

Norway may be converting its tiny population of cars, but it’s not happening in the Americas, Eastern Europe, Africa, the Middle East, India or South East Asia, or Australasia.
 
The canny Scots are the biggest users of EV’s.
?????

The annual sales figures I've seen over the last few years would suggest relative to UK as a whole that Scotland has fewer EVs per capita than the UK as a whole.

When I have seen figures in articles they typically confuse the issue by mentioning large % increases and then mixing in the numbers of ULEZ compliant vehicles and sales of diesels relative to EVs. So it takes a bit of digging to try and figure what is actually happening.
 
Maybe manufacturers should wake up to this and make better (or better value) EVs. (If Tesla sold the S at the sort of prices people were discussing / hoping for on these forums for 10 to 12 years ago then the roads would be full of them - but that didn't happen).
Don’t worry too much, that’s coming. An influx of Chinese-manufactured at-scale small and relatively less-expensive EVs are coming.
 
Don’t worry too much, that’s coming. An influx of Chinese-manufactured at-scale small and relatively less-expensive EVs are coming.
It’s instructive to observe that the EU are already seriously discussing applying punitive (anti-dumping style) tariffs on Chinese-manufactured EV's, so I wouldn’t get your hopes up.
 
?????

The annual sales figures I've seen over the last few years would suggest relative to UK as a whole that Scotland has fewer EVs per capita than the UK as a whole.

When I have seen figures in articles they typically confuse the issue by mentioning large % increases and then mixing in the numbers of ULEZ compliant vehicles and sales of diesels relative to EVs. So it takes a bit of digging to try and figure what is actually happening.

Just this kind of nonsense and PR from the SNP. All EV focussed. No Ulez bragging

 
Just this kind of nonsense and PR from the SNP. All EV focussed. No Ulez bragging


The articles implies Scotland is 'outpacing' the rest of the UK - this refers to sales growth - which in this case is probably more about 'catching up' with the UK rather 'outpacing' from a lower relative position (so of course % growth looks even better).

As a side comment I think it is significant that after a slow start we are now seeing electric buses getting deployed in increasing numbers. That said there is little information that I have seen about their real use/operational cycles.
 
The government encouraged diesel. The effect was a whole load of people who didn't benefit from diesel bought diesel cars anyway. The used market for diesels was healthy and depreciation on diesels lower. The effect was diesels became even more attractive.

Some diesels were not very good. Some were very good. I'd say that a 3 litre turbo diesel combined with a modern automatic was (is?) one of the best drive trains ever in terms of economy, performance, pliability.

EVs on the other hand have even stronger 'incentives' in the current market - yet unlike diesels are failing.

That suggests that if you eliminate the market rigging by the government that diesels in the 2000's had more merit from a customer perspective than EVs have at the moment.

So yes - in your words 'there's a reason why the used market was always filled with MB/Audi/BMW' and it was because these vehicles were *preferred*.

And if it was not for current government market rigging - they probably still would be.

Maybe manufacturers should wake up to this and make better (or better value) EVs. (If Tesla sold the S at the sort of prices people were discussing / hoping for on these forums for 10 to 12 years ago then the roads would be full of them - but that didn't happen).
To be fair the examples you are giving regarding diesels existed in much simpler times.

Back then it was just a choice of diesel or petrol, both ‘ICE cars’ - just which flavour of juice they used.

None of this question of infrastructure, charging, range anxiety etc.

ICE vs. electric is quite a bit different. In general comparatively, like-for-like, they cost quite a lot more (with diesels there wasn’t a significant cost difference)

Aside from this, people are naturally sceptical of change, coupled with the fact that many technophobes are looking for reasons *not* to try one (including a twenty plus page long thread on a fire in a car park that probably wasn’t caused by an EV), with the sorts of reasons cited such as needing a range of 300 miles that has to be able to drive at a constant 85mph with a 5 minute maximum recharge (refuel!) time - totally ignoring any of the merits of possible ownership in 95% of circumstances.

Creosoted fences lasted longer than fences stained with modern products, and I’m sure Irn-Bru tasted better before the recipe was changed. Die hard petrol heads will miss the soundtrack of their beloved petrol-burning engines and many will find it hard to change at first and look for any reason to justify this.

Sometimes you have to move with the times, ICE cars are on the way out and EVs are taking over even if the uptakes seems a little slower than initially expected.

Yes there will always be examples where current EVs don’t suit a particular individual but I’m sure most people could use one everyday if they wanted to :)
 
I was always puzzled by the fact that the driver/owner of that RR that burnt down that airport multi story car park was never interviewed by the media,I mean it is unheard of not to get the " I was lucky to get out of that thing it happend very quickly I had no chance to put it out " sort of thing,my thought was that this RR was not insured and this was further enhanced when I heard the driver had been arrested,but there is a video saying he was a rich guy late for his plane and he just jumped out and caught his flight,which adds a whole new dimension to the "he did a runner" .
I see the thread has some EV posts ,I see that the government has enhanced the amount of money they will give to haulage companies to run ev trucks,now the only company I have heard about that runs two Ev trucks is in Scotland and they carry timber to the haulage companies base sounds impressive but the journey is 11 miles,but that aside any company that takes on EV trucks will have problems with day drivers,because very often they will have a short local pick up to finish their day at a reasonable hour,I can see trouble brewing if the EV's get that sory of work all day so none left for the day driver to finish his shift.
 

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