Luton Airport car park fire

[Bobby Dazzler]

This thread has got me looking at early Tesla Model S on Autotrader

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

You have to laugh at the CO2 saving argument now that our airports have returned to their pre-Covid19 level.

The annual saving by switching an older big engined car to an EV is essentially the same as two people flying to the States return, or one Chinese student flying to the UK, return, to study at one of our fine Universities.

On the one hand we're saying "don't run a newer ICE, which has half or a third of the emissions of your older car, switch to EV." While also saying "Carry on flying wherever you fancy." Makes no sense.

 

[markjay]

Well the government is paying out more money to transport fims to have a EV truck,now I only know one company to run two of these EV's and it is Scotland and the publicity was all about the trucks hauling timber back to base,I thought well thats impressive a heavy load on a EV so they are able to do real work,then the balloon burst it seems these trucks have a 22 mile round trip on that work,the plain fact is if the government stopped paying out to companies then EV's would be dead,in transport what will happen if companies take on EV trucks and put them on local work then they will get trouble with their day drivers because they will look for a local job to make up their hours if say they get back to base at 2pm,and given the shortage of drivers they will find a company without EV's

True. But, equally, if the government stopped subsidising rail, the trains will be dead. Suggesting that governments shouldn't be subsidising anything is taking an extreme political position, I think.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

This thread has got me looking at early Tesla Model S on Autotrader

2016 Facelift is well worth having. Lots of initial gremlins resolved, and significant upgrade on interior quality.

 

[markjay]

You have to laugh at the CO2 saving argument now that our airports have returned to their pre-Covid19 level...

The poor jetting-off to a holiday in Spain twice a year is a relatively new phenomena - it started with easyJet and Ryanair. Before that, a short haul ticket to Europe was costing several hundred pounds. So we first brought private cars to the masses, then we brought jet holidays to the masses, and now we are complaining about the consequences. Typical

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

The poor jetting-off to a holiday in Spain twice a year is a relatively new phenomena - it started with easyJet and Ryanair. Before that, a short haul ticket to Europe was costing several hundred pounds. So we first brought private cars to the masses, then we brought jet holidays to the masses, and now we are complaining about the consequences. Typical

Certainly.

And why do we fly to Eastern Europe or Southern Spain, rather than drive to France?

Apart from the weather and the cheap labour, because we've taxed the bejesus out of road travel, but left flights relatively tax free.

Allegedly only 50% of the population fly in a typical year, but 15% fly more than three times.

(I'll exit stage left, pursued by bear)

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

2016 Facelift is well worth having. Lots of initial gremlins resolved, and significant upgrade on interior quality.

View attachment 148767

Worth knowing, thank you.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Some seem to suggest that they drive because they can afford it, public transport is for poor people.

Maybe in London.....quite the opposite around here.....its the cost of public transport (and the inconvenience, lack of regular services when you actually need then, finding half an hour to travel when they are not on strike or doing maintenance, having to share with the great unwashed, etc ,etc ,etc) that keeps people in their cars!!

 

[Bellow]

How many countries have the materials (cobalt. lithium, rare earth magnets, etc) that EVs and their supporting infrastructure require?
How many countries have arable land on which they could grow crops for carbon neutral bio-fuels?
How many remember being dependent on middle eastern countries for oil?
How many have questioned the stability of supply of cobalt. lithium, rare earth magnets, etc?

 

[markjay]

How many countries have the materials (cobalt. lithium, rare earth magnets, etc) that EVs and their supporting infrastructure require?
How many countries have arable land on which they could grow crops for carbon neutral bio-fuels?
How many remember being dependent on middle eastern countries for oil?
How many have questioned the stability of supply of cobalt. lithium, rare earth magnets, etc?

So what's the solution then?

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Certainly.

And why do we fly to Eastern Europe or Southern Spain, rather than drive to France?

Apart from the weather and the cheap labour, because we've taxed the bejesus out of road travel, but left flights relatively tax free.

Allegedly only 50% of the population fly in a typical year, but 15% fly more than three times.

(I'll exit stage left, pursued by bear)

I completely changed my attitudes towards flying when I read that even though it produces significantly less CO2 than a Boeing 747, the Airbus A380 still produces a huge amount of CO2 when flying from London to Los Angeles. I was aghast, I can’t remember how much but they were horrifying figures and really put me off taking long haul flights.

So I bought a Cirrus Vision Jet and I’ve never looked back - being much smaller it‘s dramatically reduced my carbon footprint. I mostly only fly as far as I can without refuelling now, so Geneva, St Moritz and Monaco are all in easy reach for the for the weekend - I drive if I’m staying longer - but I only fly to LA, New York, Hong Kong or Tokyo if I really have to now, never just for fun.

Like an EV it requires an upfront investment, depreciation is heavy, and building one has its own environmental impact to consider. It would be irresponsible to buy one and for it to be sat unused for most the week, so I share with three others - my wife and two kids use it too.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Modern planes are very efficient.....and therefore pretty good with carbon. Compare it with an individual in a car and a fully loaded Airbus will return the equivalent of 78 mpg per person. So as long is the plane is at least half full (so about 40mpg) its going to cause less pollution per person that they would if they drove to the destination in all but the most economical ICE powered cars......and a few hundred cars off the worlds roads....its a win, win. Im flying to work from now on!

As a comparison Concorde only got about 17mpg per passenger....so still a bit better than most M156 powered AMGs!!

Fuel economy in aircraft - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Maybe in London.....quite the opposite around here.....its the cost of public transport (and the inconvenience, lack of regular services when you actually need then, finding half an hour to travel when they are not on strike or doing maintenance, having to share with the great unwashed, etc ,etc ,etc) that keeps people in their cars!!

Do they even have public transport outside of London, apart from the usual Railway "spokes" into London?

 

[ALFAitalia]

Not much.....not to mention I'd have to drive 4 miles to the nearest train station, pay to park and then pay for all the vandalism are door pings on my car!! Buses are worse as Id have to go into a town I don't work in just the change buses to get to work....no direct services from Pagham to Nutbourne (unsurprisingly!)!!....and I live in the outskirts of a town......live out in the sticks where I used to and it only gets worse. Stoughton has no train station and one return bus a week....on a Thursday!!!

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I completely changed my attitudes towards flying when I read that even though it produces significantly less CO2 than a Boeing 747, the Airbus A380 still produces a huge amount of CO2 when flying from London to Los Angeles. I was aghast, I can’t remember how much but they were horrifying figures and really put me off taking long haul flights.

So I bought a Cirrus Vision Jet and I’ve never looked back - being much smaller it‘s dramatically reduced my carbon footprint. I mostly only fly as far as I can without refuelling now, so Geneva, St Moritz and Monaco are all in easy reach for the for the weekend - I drive if I’m staying longer - but I only fly to LA, New York, Hong Kong or Tokyo if I really have to now, never just for fun.

Like an EV it requires an upfront investment, depreciation is heavy, and building one has its own environmental impact to consider. It would be irresponsible to buy one and for it to be sat unused for most the week, so I share with three others - my wife and two kids use it too.

Not convinced. That's a puddle jumper.

If anyone fancies a laugh about the CO2 produced by flying "Commercial," driving etc etc. Here's a very easy calculator.

Excellent for anyone with friends who boast about their Tesla X while chatting in the BA Lounge before yet another long haul flight

Or for anyone who wonders why there are so many Chinese tourists at Bicester Village.


carbonfootprint.com - Carbon Footprint Calculator

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Well the government is paying out more money to transport fims to have a EV truck,now I only know one company to run two of these EV's and it is Scotland and the publicity was all about the trucks hauling timber back to base,I thought well thats impressive a heavy load on a EV so they are able to do real work,then the balloon burst it seems these trucks have a 22 mile round trip on that work,the plain fact is if the government stopped paying out to companies then EV's would be dead,in transport what will happen if companies take on EV trucks and put them on local work then they will get trouble with their day drivers because they will look for a local job to make up their hours if say they get back to base at 2pm,and given the shortage of drivers they will find a company without EV's

I might be an outlier here, but I believe that EVs would still continue to sell even without the tax incentives, they simply accelerate how quickly we can build up a used EV market to make them affordable for more.

Many large organisations will continue to have EV only - or EV first - policies for company fleets even if the tax incentives aren’t there for their employees, especially as renewable energy ramps up further.

 

[ALFAitalia]

That's calculator is pretty rubbish.....it said 2.3 tons of carbon to fly from London/Gatwick to NY (an Airbus would actual make about 1.3 ton).....and thats the carbon for the whole plane....I'm not responsible for the carbon of everyone else on that plane whilst they account for none of it!!!

 

[BTB 500]

Not much.....not to mention I'd have to drive 4 miles to the nearest train station, pay to park and then pay for all the vandalism are door pings on my car!! Buses are worse as Id have to go into a town I don't work in just the change buses to get to work....no direct services from Pagham to Nutbourne (unsurprisingly!)!!....and I live in the outskirts of a town......live out in the sticks where I used to and it only gets worse. Stoughton has no train station and one return bus a week....on a Thursday!!!

19 miles to the nearest rail station for us, and 6 miles to the nearest bus stop. The council does provide a school bus service from the local villages, using chartered coaches.

The next village to ours has a community bus service that goes to the nearest town and back once a week (on a Wednesday).

 

[ALFAitalia]

......lol.....yep and big city types expect us to give up cars (or use them less) and use public transport......they are mostly clueless of life outside the M25 or (insert your city ring road here!)!!!

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Not convinced. That's a puddle jumper.

It is, but it’s only for the four us, to go Switzerland and the Riviera for a few days, it doesn’t need to be big - it’s surprisingly comfortable and stable too.

It’s a shame that we can’t get to Italy without refuelling but it’s only a minor inconvenience really, and it’s an opportunity to have wee-stop, coffee and bite to eat.

You leave close to home, land close to your destination, and don’t queue, so refuelling stops are easily more than offset than the overall time saving relative to commercial.

Like an EV.