Luton Airport car park fire

[poormansporsche]

True. People are still buying 'cheaper to run' Diesel cars, in spite of the fact that Diesel fuel costs around 5%-10% more than petrol, and repairs can be very expensive.

An example. A few years ago Mrs PMP bought a 1.6 Diesel Kia Sportage new on a 3 year PCP. Despite costing 500 quid more than the turbo petrol was actually cheaper to buy because of the first year high tax of of the petrol. 3 years of short journeys with absolutely zero problems and never dropped below a true 40 mpg despite never reaching temperature. When she chopped it in after 3 years there were no diesels left so ended up with the turbo 1.6 petrol replacement, 1000 quid more than a diesel (1500 first year tax !!!!) and never gets above 25 mpg. Bloody useless

Go figure

 

[markjay]

An example. A few years ago Mrs PMP bought a 1.6 Diesel Kia Sportage new on a 3 year PCP. Despite costing 500 quid more than the turbo petrol was actually cheaper to buy because of the first year high tax of of the petrol. 3 years of short journeys with absolutely zero problems and never dropped below a true 40 mpg despite never reaching temperature. When she chopped it in after 3 years there were no diesels left so ended up with the turbo 1.6 petrol replacement, 1000 quid more than a diesel (1500 first year tax !!!!) and never gets above 25 mpg. Bloody useless

Go figure

Mrs MJ had a 2010 Kia 1.6CRDi Diesel that we ran for 5 years (until it was written off by a bit racer while parked outside our house at night). It came with a 7-year manufacturer's warranty but didn't need any repairs. The DPF was fine inspite of making mostly short journeys. Also, the Front Passenger Seat Occupancy Recognition System didn't fail, the front wheel speed sensors didn't pack up, all the exhaust pipe sensors were fine, it didn't need a new thermostat.... the list is long. I love MB cars, but you have to admit it ... you know what I am saying.

 

[Dryce]

True. People are still buying 'cheaper to run' Diesel cars, in spite of the fact that Diesel fuel costs around 5%-10% more than petrol, and repairs can be very expensive.

Up to about 10% pricing difference diesel wins out on the energy per litre.

And my experience of diesel and petrol hire cars of various sorts is that the diesels typically trounce ordinary petrol cars by a lot better than 10%.

Though that said I have quite a few colleagues and relatives who seem to be able to take a car of any type and get poor consumption. Heavy feet and driving patterns. I see quite a bit of variety on fuel expenses for hire cars by different staff on the same journeys. That's yet another variable in real costs / benefits vs perceived. Interestingly the people I know who get worst actual consumption tend to be the ones quoting the manufacturers' figures as if that's what they actually expect to get when talking about their cars - a sort of cognitive block effect)

 

[markjay]

Up to about 10% pricing difference diesel wins out on the energy per litre.

And my experience of diesel and petrol hire cars of various sorts is that the diesels typically trounce ordinary petrol cars by a lot better than 10%.

Though that said I have quite a few colleagues and relatives who seem to be able to take a car of any type and get poor consumption. Heavy feet and driving patterns. I see quite a bit of variety on fuel expenses for hire cars by different staff on the same journeys. That's yet another variable in real costs / benefits vs perceived. Interestingly the people I know who get worst actual consumption tend to be the ones quoting the manufacturers' figures as if that's what they actually expect to get when talking about their cars - a sort of cognitive block effect)

Ultimately, mpg only makes a significant difference if the annual miles add up.

If you buy a Diesel car and drive 2000 miles a year, the saving on fuel will be minimal (especially given the Diesel engines have poor mpg when the engine is cold), and it's just not worth the potential pain from DPF and other Diesel engine issues.

 

[rf065]

Ultimately, mpg only makes a significant difference if the annual miles add up.

If you buy a Diesel car and drive 2000 miles a year, the saving on fuel will be minimal (especially given the Diesel engines have poor mpg when the engine is cold), and it's just not worth the potential pain from DPF and other Diesel engine issues.

You say that, but, mine has similiar torque figure to say a 5 litre V8, thats priceless!

 

[Dryce]

Ultimately, mpg only makes a significant difference if the annual miles add up.

That's what I meant with 'driving patterns'.

Not everybody has the same pattern of usage or approach to using their car - which does further complicate things.

This is why I think small cheap EVs would be a really good compromise for many people. But the market doesn't provide these.

It's also why the likes of Dacia should sell a lot more cars just based on value - but many buyers are willing to pay substantially more for a vehicle that has additional features and a more upmarket image.

 

[markjay]

That's what I meant with 'driving patterns'.

Not everybody has the same pattern of usage or approach to using their car - which does further complicate things.

This is why I think small cheap EVs would be a really good compromise for many people. But the market doesn't provide these.

It's also why the likes of Dacia should sell a lot more cars just based on value - but many buyers are willing to pay substantially more for a vehicle that has additional features and a more upmarket image.

Dacia Spring: Europe's most affordable electric car to come to the UK

Dacia has confirmed that the highly anticipated fully electric Dacia Spring will be launched in the UK in 2024

www.dacia.co.uk

"Dacia Spring: Europe's most affordable electric car to come to the UK

Dacia has confirmed that the highly anticipated fully electric Dacia Spring will be launched in the UK in 2024...
...

Data collected from the Spring’s connected services has provided an insight into how the full four-seat hatchback has met European customers’ requirements, and how it could fit in with the needs of UK drivers whose travel is mostly in urban areas. On average, customers’ daily commutes last under 20 miles and are covered at 16mph, while in 75% of cases, the Spring is charged at home for an average duration of 3.5 hours...
...

Full details, including timings, pricing and specification, will be announced in 2024."

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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

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€17,000 RRP in France, which works out as €12,500 after the government grant.

Dacia Spring review: Sub £15k EV is Britain's cheapest AND best value | Autocar

Budget car specialist Dacia introduces its first electric car to the UK, and it's a bargain

www.autocar.co.uk

"...the Spring is built in China, as part of a joint venture between Dacia parent Renault, alliance partner Nissan and Dongfeng Motor Group."

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Dacia Spring: Europe's most affordable electric car to come to the UK

Dacia has confirmed that the highly anticipated fully electric Dacia Spring will be launched in the UK in 2024

www.dacia.co.uk

"Dacia Spring: Europe's most affordable electric car to come to the UK

Dacia has confirmed that the highly anticipated fully electric Dacia Spring will be launched in the UK in 2024...
...

Data collected from the Spring’s connected services has provided an insight into how the full four-seat hatchback has met European customers’ requirements, and how it could fit in with the needs of UK drivers whose travel is mostly in urban areas. On average, customers’ daily commutes last under 20 miles and are covered at 16mph, while in 75% of cases, the Spring is charged at home for an average duration of 3.5 hours...
...

Full details, including timings, pricing and specification, will be announced in 2024."

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

€17,000 RRP in France, which works out as €12,500 after the government grant.

Dacia Spring review: Sub £15k EV is Britain's cheapest AND best value | Autocar

Budget car specialist Dacia introduces its first electric car to the UK, and it's a bargain

www.autocar.co.uk

"...the Spring is built in China, as part of a joint venture between Dacia parent Renault, alliance partner Nissan and Dongfeng Motor Group."

Wow, this is going to convert a lot of Dacia Duster drivers.

If it arrives on time, and if the EU decides NOT to put up those Chinese trade walls that it's been debating for so long.

EU to investigate 'flood' of Chinese electric cars, weigh tariffs

Press corner



.

 

[markjay]

Wow, this is going to convert a lot of Dacia Duster drivers.

It's a very small car - much smaller than the Duster - and more akin in size to the Smart Forfour.

 

[Dryce]

It's a very small car - much smaller than the Duster - and more akin in size to the Smart Forfour.

Which means really it just re-emphasises the pricing problem where a given 'cheap' EV is priced at a significant increment over a non-EV 'cheap' equivalent. It's only subsidies, tax concessions, and restrictions that make these vehicle viable.

Depressing.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

It's a very small car - much smaller than the Duster - and more akin in size to the Smart Forfour.

For sure, isn't it really a budget e-Up! ?

My cheeky point was that it might well sell to Smart Forfour users, but it's not going to set Mbclub.co.uk on file.

(IMHO the Dacia Duster is a phenomenal car at the price, but it's still been a struggle to sell Dusters in the UK against the "West European" and Japanese brands. We're still a country that looks down our nose at even the likes of Honda and Toyota, let alone East European brands. Although we're too dumb to realise that BMW 3's come from South Africa, and that German SUV's come the Southern States)

 

[markjay]

For sure, isn't it really a budget e-Up! ?

My cheeky point was that it might well sell to Smart Forfour users, but it's not going to set Mbclub.co.uk on file.

(IMHO the Dacia Duster is a phenomenal car at the price, but it's still been a struggle to sell Dusters in the UK against the "West European" and Japanese brands. We're still a country that looks down our nose at even the likes of Honda and Toyota, let alone East European brands. Although we're too dumb to realise that BMW 3's come from South Africa, and that German SUV's come the Southern States)

It will (hopefully) be a cheap new EV that is suitable for people who need to commute to works on daily basis through city traffic. This should suit some people. Quite a few, I would imagine. It might not sell well, but then it's more of a "frame of mind" issue - some people won't buy an EV if their lives depended on it.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

e-Up, didn't we have one of those a decade ago? Like the glorious Zoe and Leaf, hasn't Joanna Public ignored them for city use?

OK, I know the range is greater on the new Dacia EV, but for City use, who cares about range?

 

[Dryce]

It might not sell well, but then it's more of a "frame of mind" issue - some people won't buy an EV if their lives depended on it.

Hang on a minute - what about the cost/value proposition?

If a customer has the choice to pay £17500 for a very small Dacia as opposed to a bit under £14K for a not so small Dacia then why would they pay a premium for the lesser EV car?

That's not a 'frame of mind' issue- that's practical common sense unless you have an overriding need or use case or desire for the EV version.

Moreover that £14K not so small Dacia would likely be a bi-fuel one so could use LPG.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Hang on a minute - what about the cost/value proposition?

If a customer has the choice to pay £17500 for a very small Dacia as opposed to a bit under £14K for a not so small Dacia then why would they pay a premium for the lesser EV car?

That's not a 'frame of mind' issue- that's practical common sense unless you have an overriding need or use case or desire for the EV version.

Moreover that £14K not so small Dacia would likely be a bi-fuel one so could use LPG.

There’s always a car which more spacious, more prestigious, more pick-something-else-of-your-choice available for less money than a new car.

That’s why the majority of private car buyers buy used - buying new cars is expensive. It’s justifiable for businesses but less so for private buyers.

For less money than the Dacia Spring you could also buy pretty much any car you want, as long as it’s used. You could take your pick S-Classes for example.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Inflation has much to do with the perception of how expensive EVs are, and focussing only brand new prices accounts for much of the rest, despite the fact that most people don't buy cars brand new

An RRP of €17,000 is around £14,850, which after accounting for inflation would have been around £11,900 in 2018, which is in turn around the RRP price of my Smart ForFour back in 2018.

There may be an occasional observational comment, - but far from an outcry about the new price of an ICE E-Class, S-Class, or SL - because most people buy them used after they have depreciated heavily..

That will happen with EVs too. Ironically, now EVs are depreciating more quickly that’s now seen as another reason not to buy one. ICE cars have always depreciated quickly, things are returning to normal.

 

[HappytalkAgain]

You can still drag an EV a short distance to safety, mines been pushed 100 metres in ‘tow mode’ with no issues at all.

Why oh why oh why did you confess that???

 

[SmartAmg]

some people won't buy an EV if their lives depended on it.

Yep, sad innit.

 

[ALFAitalia]

In a time when most (over 90 % now) privately owned cars are bought on PCP the headline list price price is almost irrelevant.....only the monthly payment matters.

 

[modee9]

feel sorry for the people that lost there cars