M104.980 Fueling

[Niks]

Hi guys,

Im just trying to understand what other fueling systems can be used on a M104.980 other than the CIS-E? I've heard of a few people gutting the CIS-E for something else and gained pretty good results. Anyone in the know who can suggest?

Im not talking about turbo'ing and pairing it up with megasquirt, just sticking to N/A.

Cheers

 

[BlackC55]

Jenvy throttle bodies!!

 

[Niks]

^ Is there anymore info on those?

Been looking at going for a full efi megasquirt v3 setup on this

 

[John Jones Jr]

Have a look at Emerald. Big fans of Jenvy's.

EmeraldM3D.com - Home

EFi'ing Merc K-Jet/CIS engine has been done many times. M102's, M103's & M104's. Never heard of a custom kit that I'm aware of for your 24V, there is for the other's and it's not cheap. For example have look to at the Team Stadlers site in Germany, they do a lovely looking bit of kit for the M102 16V's and that would be similar to what you require bar the fact you've got a couple more cylinders. Also you can cut down costs by getting your inlet manifold modified to take EFI injectors and thus not using Throttle Bodies.

Have a look here too Welcome to Megasquirt UK I understand they are very helpful.

 

[John Jones Jr]

Here you go.

Generic Throttle body conversion kits for 6 cylinder engines.

 

[RBYCC]

Niks

Keep in mind that your engine has two systems.
CIS-E for fuel and EZL for ignition.
On a NA engine just changing fuel is of no benefit if you can't match timing.
You'll just end up with a rich mixture and no added power.
The CIS-E fuel maps are adequate for a stock motor which is biased toward stoichiometric.
Add more advance and you'll gain power with the stock fuel maps.
Regretfully the EZL has fixed advance curves which on Euro cars have the dial that can make incremental changes based on fuel quality.

EFI conversion with a fuel rail or throttle bodies like John mentioned require a fuel/ignition programmable system like the MS you are considering.

The power gains you make with the conversion are dependent on the skill of the tuner who programs the fuel/ignition control systems.

Ed A.

 

[John Jones Jr]

the power gains you make with the conversion are dependent on the skill of the tuner who programs the fuel/ignition control systems.

Ed a.

+1.

 

[mazza]

Hey

There are much cheaper routes if the direction was EFI with throttle bodies, its been done and tested before with decent gains.

just use BMW E34 m5 throttle bodies and no cheap ECU or ECU piggy back. As pointed out by Ed, ignition flexibility is paramount.

mazza

 

[John Jones Jr]

That looks the dogs danglies!

 

[RBYCC]

I think Carlsson used the M5 ITB's that Mazza mentioned on their C37 M104 build.

 

[d w124]

I think Carlsson used the M5 ITB's that Mazza mentioned on their C37 M104 build.

As on the picture ^ the C37 did have them but only the RS version
They offered C37 which was without throtle bodies or the C37RS which came with

 

[Niks]

Niks

Keep in mind that your engine has two systems.
CIS-E for fuel and EZL for ignition.
On a NA engine just changing fuel is of no benefit if you can't match timing.
You'll just end up with a rich mixture and no added power.
The CIS-E fuel maps are adequate for a stock motor which is biased toward stoichiometric.
Add more advance and you'll gain power with the stock fuel maps.
Regretfully the EZL has fixed advance curves which on Euro cars have the dial that can make incremental changes based on fuel quality.

EFI conversion with a fuel rail or throttle bodies like John mentioned require a fuel/ignition programmable system like the MS you are considering.

The power gains you make with the conversion are dependent on the skill of the tuner who programs the fuel/ignition control systems.

Ed A.

Ahh your right, I totally discarded the EZL ignition side which is another whole chapter.

Im going to have another whole read about this, I just have a feeling that changing everything to standalone via MS will achieve much better results overall over the stock CIS-E, most importantly economy. Knowing that I can see whats going on at every stage via a laptop would be so much better, especially for future add on's and performance tuning.

I haven't considered the ITB's route yet, but im not ruling it out completely.

 

[mazza]

Knowing that I can see whats going on at every stage via a laptop would be so much better, especially for future add on's and performance tuning.

if you just want to show off with your lap top..you can do it with the KE Jet too..hehe

 

[Niks]

^ It would be fun to turn the interior into the starship enterprise wouldnt it? lol

So, CIS controls how much fuel goes in and EZL controls the spark timings. EZL needs input info from the crankshaft position sensor which then sends info to the ignition coil, which then in turns goes to the distributor, which goes to the spark plug. It reads constant information from the coolant temp sensor and air pressure sensor to control spark at various engine loads. Is this right or am i missing something?