MB and the historic wheel vibration.

[wheels-inmotion]

MB owners fall victim to endless issues regarding steering vibration, logic and conmen sense suggests the problem is wheel balance but despite endless journeys from one company to another the problem remains.

So what's the problem!
The problem is balance ..... BMW owners have similar complaints to MB owners.

Why
MB and BMW wheels have a very deep dish and there's a real error between the location of the outer and inner centre holes.

So!
When the wheel is mounted on the balancer a dye is placed in the centre hole to "centre" the wheel. Since the hole is "cosmetically central" there's an immediate flaw before any balance is attempted.

I see.... now what?
The wheel needs to be mounted to the balancer by the stud holes, this mimics how the wheel is mounted to the car.

Who does this?
Any company that can balance French solid centre wheels can balance your wheels, i'm talking Peugeot 205 and Citroen C1/2/3/4/5/6/7/ and so on.

Cost
Same as standard balance

Describe "balance problems"
0-30mph: Never
30-50mph: Tremor
50-70mph: Distinct vibration increasing with speed
70-80mph: Vibration gone
80mph plus: Vibration may return

Hope this helps peeps.........

 

[GordonTarling]

I thought that MB wheels were hubcentric - are you saying that they aren't?

 

[Chris Murray]

Centering is key to a good wheel balance. 0.1mm centering error equates to around 10g counterbalance mass.
Both BMW and Mercedes dealers require any tyre shop doing work for them to be equipped with expanding collets on the balance shafts and "finger plates" to aid good centering through the bolt holes.
Please expand on this "MB and BMW wheels have a very deep dish and there's a real error between the location of the outer and inner centre holes." ie what are defining as "dish" and inner/outer centre hole.
A lot of the time a wheel can be well balanced but with intolerably high radial runout (ovality) which will manifest itself with similar symptoms to how you describe for erroneous centering.
Most operators set the balance machines at 5g intervals (because most wheel weights are sold in 5g multiples). When you see the machine read 0/0/0 DON'T think the operator is a genius! furthermore, it's utterly pointless aiming for 0.0/0.0/0.0 because the result won't be repeatable. When you're next balancing a wheel/tyre unit, complete the process then put the balanced wheel/tyre back on the machine in a different position on the shaft. Still 0.0/0.0/0.0? not likely!

 

[Chris Murray]

I thought that MB wheels were hubcentric - are you saying that they aren't?

this "hubcentric" concept is really overplayed. All it means is that centering is provided by the hub. Just like "boltcentric" means centering is provided by bolts.
I've never seen a vehicle that relies solely on bolts for centering, but I believe some exist..
The aim is to have the wheels as close to concentricity as possible with other rotating items. Both the centre bore (the hubcentric bit) and the bolts (the boltcentric bit) will contribute to this aim.
ps are my tyres wheelcentric?

 

[wheels-inmotion]

I thought that MB wheels were hubcentric - are you saying that they aren't?

The inner hole is hub-centric but the balance dye locates in the outer hole.... error!!

 

[Chris Murray]

The inner hole is hub-centric but the balance dye locates in the outer hole.... error!!

Ah, I see what you're suggesting > when tyre fitters use the centering cone on the front face side of the wheel.

I would suggest that the best advice for members is to insist that their wheels/tyres are balanced using "finger plates" as the outer clamp, preferably in conjunction with an expanding collet or at the very least a centering cone on the shaft to begin with.

 

[moonloops]

Is this error also referred to as counter balancing?

I had my tyres fitted and balanced at costco and had those exact symptoms until Tyres Northampton did them "properly" - I'm sure they said that Costco had counter balanced them??

My MR2 did same thing, small tyre fitting place supposed to have balanced them, no change, again Tyres Northampton did them OK.

 

[Chris Murray]

in that context, "counterbalancing" probably means they ran a final test spin at the end and added more weight according to the results of that, so on each balance plane there was more than one cluster of weights.

 

[GordonTarling]

Thanks - I think I understand a bit more now!

 

[wheels-inmotion]

Ah, I see what you're suggesting > when tyre fitters use the centering cone on the front face side of the wheel.

I would suggest that the best advice for members is to insist that their wheels/tyres are balanced using "finger plates" as the outer clamp, preferably in conjunction with an expanding collet or at the very least a centering cone on the shaft to begin with.

I'm not comfortable with that, i know what your saying but there's still an error.

Factual solution is "bolt" the wheel to the balancer in the same fashion as the wheel is bolted to the car.

 

[Chris Murray]

I'm not comfortable with that, i know what your saying but there's still an error.

Factual solution is "bolt" the wheel to the balancer in the same fashion as the wheel is bolted to the car.

Thats what a finger plate does, mimic the bolting action. Ours cost upwards of £500, plus £300 for the expanding collect for the inside centre bore.
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