MB vs blowing up Saab's

[big x]

We hear lots of posts on the forum about bodywork and electrical problems on certain MB models but it seems to me Saab are far worse in terms of major mechanical design flaws in addition to the electrical glitches all non-Japanese cars suffer from.
Four cylinder Saabs suffer from oil pick up problems and sludge,a combination of blocked sump strainers and poor engine breathing.Even the best synthetic oils sludge up with extended drain intervals.The result is...http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SAAB-9-3-S-TURBO-2002-REG-AIR-CON-ENGINE-SIEZED_W0QQitemZ270015475908
and the warning signs are http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SAAB-9-5-GRIFFIN-V6-ECO-S-98-ISSUES-PHENOMINAL-SPEC_W0QQitemZ270014845833
I've never heard of a mercedes having early total engine failure due to poor design like this.
Saabs are good on corrosion and saftey but the high power turbo models often unbalance the FWD chassis.The 9-5 is a modified Vectra floorpan.
Saabs biggest market is the UK, the Germans don't touch them. Still, these cars shed money so fast when new that the 9-5 estate in V6 form is tempting although they lack Mercedes testing and development budget.

adam

 

[jay73]

friend of mine had a year 2000 93 turbo with FSSH and 55k on the clock we were on the motorway at 70mph when the oil light came on (oil pump had failed) he ended up getting a complete new engine in it (part goodwill) as it was cheaper than to supply the sum of parts.
12 months later the aircon pump has just packed in, and at £700 plus labout he's traded the car in !!!

 

[BonzoDog]

I had a 1998 9-3 bought when I lived in Germany, where, I would ahve to say they were and still are quite popular. Other than battery failure once we never had any serious problems with the car. The engine, performance and comfort werre superb. We sold it earlier this year when it had 130,000 kms on the clock to a friend who continues to get good service from it.
The only endemic fault that I know of is the breaking of a control cable in the a/c about every three yeasr.
I would niggle at the finish of some of the GM switches and controls but overall an excellent package. However if you drive any car consistently hard, especially with a turbo, you can expect it to break at some time.

 

[jeremytaylor]

I was in a friend's 2005 9-3 Cabrio at the weekend and I have to say that reports of the cheap interior plastics are true. This car had only done 9000 miles but the plastics were scratched badly.

 

[ralphsanders]

seems its a long standing problem i had a 99 super (1978) and the oil pump failed new engine needed. seems things don't change

 

[Satch]

Few years back MB in the United States had mega engine sludging issues on extended drain servicing because they got caught out by oil makers using the same or very similar product names in the US when the oil was in fact way below the European Specs.

That was just unfortunate and rectified by using correct spec oil but cost a huge amount in warranty claims: new engines all round. Toyota had a similar problem for a while with V6 Camrys.

As does GM with certain engines but their problem was down to very narrow oilways blocking if there is even quite a small amount of sludge. Now who owns SAAB?

Lo and behold from the Honest John website:

"Clean oil essential on all SAAB 4 cylinder chain-cam engines: needs changing ever 5,000 - 6,000 miles. Listen for timing chain rattle on four cylinder SAAB engines.

Reports of a sludge problem in 4 cylinder engines that led SAAB to issue an 8 year engine warranty in early 2005."

 

[Satch]

Traffic authorities to review local speed limits

Wrong place!

 

[big x]

9-3 auto gearboxes are also suspect.The point I am making is parts for saab are similar or even more expensive than Mercedes so it's difficult to make a case for owning one as reliability is so so.At auction 9-5 saloons make very little if you compare them to other prestige makes.
A while back I read an article in autocar magazine saying the 9-5 was going to be the make or break model as far as GM where concerned.Saab where loosing money and have a tiny market share in most countries including europes biggest Germany.Only the high uk list prices (for the private buyer) where keeping them afloat.

adam

 

[Shude]

9-3 auto gearboxes are also suspect.The point I am making is parts for saab are similar or even more expensive than Mercedes so it's difficult to make a case for owning one as reliability is so so.At auction 9-5 saloons make very little if you compare them to other prestige makes.
A while back I read an article in autocar magazine saying the 9-5 was going to be the make or break model as far as GM where concerned.Saab where loosing money and have a tiny market share in most countries including europes biggest Germany.Only the high uk list prices (for the private buyer) where keeping them afloat.

Saabs used to be bought by discerning, intelligent, slightly dull but ultimately harmless people. Courtesy of some big rims and chin spoilers Saabs are now also driven by salesreps. The marque is doomed!

 

[BonzoDog]

Saabs used to be bought by discerning, intelligent, slightly dull but ultimately harmless people. Courtesy of some big rims and chin spoilers Saabs are now also driven by salesreps. The marque is doomed!

As a very dull and I hope totally harmless chap I would rate my old 9-3 at about 7 out of 10 and My Murky B at close on 10 out of 10. Servicing was expensive on the Saab but except for one small prob (see earlier post) it was completely reliable. We also had the automatic box, standard GM I believe and that too was fine, except that it had considerable creep as the idle speed was so high.

 

[Dieselman]

The ebay ad is almost interesting. I am a little confused though. How does the rev counter and temp gauge work if the engine is siezed? Obviously this car doesn't really need an engine at all.

 

[lotusmark2]

OK I had to turn up here didnt I....

159k miles and my 9-5 2.3T is as solid as a rock, yes SAABs have an oil sludge problem, so you just use good oil and drop the sump now and again to ensure good running.
Yes they de-value...so dont buy them new????
MB Vs Saab
I can only go on my own experiance, my C240 was a nightmare and cost me an arm and a leg in the 8 months I owned it, my SAAB has cost me £180 plus service parts (£90) in the 12 months I have owned it.

Driving the 9-5 Vs C240

Its quicker, more refined, quieter than the C240.

Neither of them go around corners very well as standard.

Interior, both very nice, although I will admit I have a 1999 SAAB and do not like the new models interior or exterior trim at all.

What will I buy next......
Either an 03 9-3 cabrio or 9-5 Aero, will I buy another MB, never say never but doubtful.

Just my opinion

Oh and while I'm on mi box, please be open minded on the GM/Saab issue until you have driven a 2.3

 

[Dieselman]

yes SAABs have an oil sludge problem, so you just use good oil and drop the sump now and again to ensure good running.

You are kidding aren't you?

 

[lotusmark2]

nope, a very small price to pay, drop the sump every 60k miles

 

[PJH]

OK I had to turn up here didnt I....

Yes, I knew you'd be along soon.

 

[Dieselman]

nope, a very small price to pay, drop the sump every 60k miles

This begs a question. Why do they sludge up so much? I suspect it is due to locallised overheating causing the oil to caramalise.

I haven't taken a sump off in years other than to cure an oil leak on an old FIAT, but since oil manufacturers became aware of "black death" have only seen one fouled engine. A Ford CVH run on sludge.

Have you tried using flushing oil regularly?

Why do the SAAB engines suffer and the GM ones dont?

 

[lotusmark2]

I must admit, I am not the most SAAB tech person but it is a very well know issue and really does not cause that many problems to the SAAB aware people

 

[big x]

I must admit, I am not the most SAAB tech person but it is a very well know issue and really does not cause that many problems to the SAAB aware people

Saab aware people ! So when my mum who knows nothing about cars buys one
she gets a nice bill for a new engine.Folks this is poor engineering,sort of like the weekly rebuilds old brit bikes needed.
As I said everything has a price and a used V6 9-5 estate is a useful bit of kit for not much money,so yes it can be a good buy
if your handy with spanners.

adam

 

[s500surrey]

I spent £1400 last week on replacing a cracked SUMP on an S class... big oil leak problem, only 50,000 miles on the clock. God forbid, if Saab's are worse than this!!!

 

[big x]

This begs a question. Why do they sludge up so much? I suspect it is due to locallised overheating causing the oil to caramalise.

I haven't taken a sump off in years other than to cure an oil leak on an old FIAT, but since oil manufacturers became aware of "black death" have only seen one fouled engine. A Ford CVH run on sludge.

Have you tried using flushing oil regularly?

Why do the SAAB engines suffer and the GM ones dont?

Dieselman,I'm disappointed I thought you knew everything automotive ...
this thread will get you up to speed
http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58536
Ain't the internet a wonderful thing....instead of being fobbed off by the suit
behind the service desk the facts are available to all.

adam