Mcse

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That is a reality/fact - even if your immediate manager has to decide between you or your colleague certifications do come into play as he/she has to justify their position/decision.

That's not the case in the bluechip organisation I work for. Staff reductions or as we like to call it "Productivity Projects" are decided at a very local level. This is the only way to ensure correct separation of "wheat" & "chaff". Pieces of paper just don't figure in these decisions. We must have spent millions on training for individuals who's entire motiviation for attending the training course is to have a week away from the office - or having a bit of a "jolly" as we call it. Depsite their "qualifactions" they will always be the first to go.
 
I have no formal qualifications and have had no formal training. Has this made it difficult for me to obtain work? The answer is a resounding "No"! I put this down to having the right attitude, being enthusiastic and knowing my limitations.
When the recruitment agency has "must have MCSE" written on their job spec then if you've not got it you end up in the bin, it's as simple as that. There is no negotiation! I saw one advert that stated "do not apply if you don't have an MCSE" on it, no matter how much experience you have you don't stand a chance with those types! I don't agree with it and I'm not helping by applying for jobs like that but I need the work!
 
My viewpoint on certs is that experience and actual skill level is the primary important thing. it's always impossible to know if someone that has a cert has the skills to do a good job, or just the skills to pass an exam or two.

that said, I'm not a hirer, or firer of men and the people who are responsible for hiring and firing often do not have the ability to fully judge the skills of those whom they are hiring and they often use such certs to help them make decisions. is it a good thing? probably not, but there it is.

from my point of view, I work for the government and getting some decent training courses and some certs is my way of getting some of my tax back :)

I think my experience and jobs skills are the important thing, but if a few certs (that someone else pays for) will be the icing on the cake that gets me a promotion and a payrise, then I'm not going to turn down the opportunity. I think that training is important, and I've worked for a few places that have provided pretty much none.

if I do find myself looking to hire someone then certs they have will be a factor. perhaps not a deciding one but I'd consider it next to what they can tell me about their experience, background and skill level.

dave
 
Not wishing to turn this thread into a job-seeking commentary but I had a second interview today and I'm still not sure about this company.

I will be offered no training although they will pay for my exams and they don't appear to want me to take any exams to further my career. Apparently the interviewers genuinely didn't believe/know that you could get an MCSE with anything other than MS exams.

It has been made clear that this is an entry-level job which includes talking users through turning their PCs on and making cups of tea for everyone.

I'm not in a position to turn it down but at the same time it'd be heartbreaking to accept :(
 
What part of Lancs are you from?
 
I will be offered no training although they will pay for my exams and they don't appear to want me to take any exams to further my career. Apparently the interviewers genuinely didn't believe/know that you could get an MCSE with anything other than MS exams.

It has been made clear that this is an entry-level job which includes talking users through turning their PCs on and making cups of tea for everyone.

I'm not in a position to turn it down but at the same time it'd be heartbreaking to accept :(

they're not exactly encouraging you to stay if a better offer comes along are they? if their attitude is to just make use of you and not give any extra, then you can use the same attitude with them. take the job, use it to stabilise your situation but keep your eyes open for something better.

dave
 
Was declined the job I 2nd interviewed for last week because I was overqualified and they "wouldn't be able to keep up with my expectations". In other words they didn't think I'd last more than five minutes before leaving for a job somewhere else, which is pretty accurate.

I was speaking to an agency yesterday and was asked if I had any experience with LANs. Hello? :) Maybe it's not obvious to someone who's not in the field but if you've been in IT since the mid-90s, deployed and rolled out applications and OSs nationwide, cabled and configured offices from the ground up, provided 1st, 2nd and 3rd line technical support to major PLCs not to mention the 3rd biggest employer in the world and the largest purchaser of IT services in the world that you may at some point have stumbled across a LAN.

Apparently it wasn't obvious from my CV. Neither is it obvious that I can ride a pushbike, maybe I should list that in plain words too, just in case!
 
Was declined the job I 2nd interviewed for last week because I was overqualified and they "wouldn't be able to keep up with my expectations". In other words they didn't think I'd last more than five minutes before leaving for a job somewhere else, which is pretty accurate.

I was speaking to an agency yesterday and was asked if I had any experience with LANs. Hello? :) Maybe it's not obvious to someone who's not in the field but if you've been in IT since the mid-90s, deployed and rolled out applications and OSs nationwide, cabled and configured offices from the ground up, provided 1st, 2nd and 3rd line technical support to major PLCs not to mention the 3rd biggest employer in the world and the largest purchaser of IT services in the world that you may at some point have stumbled across a LAN.

Apparently it wasn't obvious from my CV. Neither is it obvious that I can ride a pushbike, maybe I should list that in plain words too, just in case!

I found that most recruitment agencies (even those specialised in IT) don't have a clue about IT, so they end up asking some pretty silly questions! I used to submit 2 cv's to recruitment agencies, a concise 2-page CV that wouldn't bore the reader to death, as well as 3-4 page one for those who need the extra help...

M.
 
Been to Foyles this afternoon. Was looking for Window Communication Foundation Step by Step, sold out. Anybody got an electronic copy to loan out for a couple of days?

I did pie chart in C++, anybody knows how to do it in C# WPF?
 

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