Mechanic rates?

[Grantovski]

Asking what the average is is pointless. An indy in the S.E. & especially London & surrounds will face overheads far higher than one in a small town in the middle of nowhere. One with courtesy cars, Star diagnostics, cappuccinos & car washing thrown in is going to cost more than a more basic outfit.

If you want to know what they charge, whether it's per hour or per job, just ask them.

Well that's your opinion. If I'd asked I'd be non the wiser without additional input on the forum. As I'm new to the forum, I asked for some advice. I wouldn't pay an Indy for a courtesy car or frothy Coffee! But that's my opinion.
I can do a bit of spanering myself. I can't see the job taking 9-10hrs?!
Indy's can be as cheap as chips in Hr rates, but if there charging more hours than necessary it's pointless. IMHO

 

[BlackC55]

Well that's your opinion. If I'd asked I'd be non the wiser without additional input on the forum. As I'm new to the forum, I asked for some advice. I wouldn't pay an Indy for a courtesy car or frothy Coffee! But that's my opinion.
I can do a bit of spanering myself. I can't see the job taking 9-10hrs?!
Indy's can be as cheap as chips in Hr rates, but if there charging more hours than necessary it's pointless. IMHO

I charge the same labour times as MB using their ASRA system. It is immoral not to IMO.

 

[Dryce]

Indy's can be as cheap as chips in Hr rates, but if there charging more hours than necessary it's pointless. IMHO

I don't recall any accusation on these forums of any respectable MB independent specialist that they deliberately took more hours to do a job than was necessary.

Moreover independents are more likely to fix than simply replace on some problems which saves on new parts.

 

[GP801]

I don't recall any accusation on these forums of any respectable MB independent specialist that they deliberately took more hours to do a job than was necessary.

Moreover independents are more likely to fix than simply replace on some problems which saves on new parts.

+1 for that. Earlier this year one of the CLK headlamps self levelling failed, Took it to PCS with the expectation of a new headlight and fairly large bill. Later that day phone call to say all done. Repaired rather than replaced. 45 minutes labour only. They could so easily have charged more. I would not have known.
They are relying on repeat business and personal recommendation. Its not in their interest to rip you off.

 

[neilrr]

I charge the same labour times as MB using their ASRA system. It is immoral not to IMO.

Always been curious about this. What if a job is on the books as taking 3 hours & it actually only takes 2?

Does the punter pay for 3 or 2 hours labour?

 

[janner]

Having just checked my invoice, it shows the total for the ATF change as £275.58, so the £330 was actually including VAT.

It would be illegal for them to quote you £330, then add vat to the bill

 

[BlackC55]

Always been curious about this. What if a job is on the books as taking 3 hours & it actually only takes 2?

Does the punter pay for 3 or 2 hours labour?

3. Every time.

The labour time is worked out at MB Germany. The job is done 3 times and they then take the average time.

Some jobs you win. Some you loose.

Its like anything. You do it 100 times your are going to get pretty quick at it. You know the tools to pick, technique etc etc.

The labour time also includes getting the parts from the parts dept too.

 

[Starky]

I think times are just a guide line.

If I priced a job e.g. Fit a radiator stating the job will cost X amount and will take 2 hours, and I finished it in 3 hours I wouldn't charge any extra. On the other hand if I finished in 1 1/2 hours I wouldn't reduce the cost.

 

[MOCAŠ]

It would be illegal for them to quote you £330, then add vat to the bill

Hmm, didn't know that. Thanks.

I've always assumed servicing prices (other than menu-based items) would be quoted ex-VAT).

 

[Pcn1]

I use a local "general" spanner man for the run of the mill stuff on our 3 cars (£45 hr and no VAT). Lets face it, some service tasks are not rocket science.
When I had my Porsche 944 S2, I used a local Porsche Indie (£65 + VAT) to do the clutch change for me as they do it all the time, and know the little things to look out for. My general spanner man could have done, but perhpas taken longer and the cost would have been the same.

Perhaps Im a bit fortunate that both these guy's are actually friends of mine !

 

[wemorgan]

I wish more tradesmen were not VAT registered, but I guess even at £45/hr it must be hard not to be.

 

[ss201]

Daft as it might sound, I advised my local indie to put his prices UP! He served his time with a Land Rover dealership, then worked for the Mercedes dealership for 12 years - attended many factory training courses, before setting up his own business. His work is superb, the service is exemplary and his rates are by today's standards, very cheap. I worked it out that his labour rates are £78 per hour cheaper than the main dealership, taking VAT into account. No frothy coffee, no posh waiting area, no courtesy car, but the bus stop is right outside the garage (handy for me, as I can use my bus pass!). It's no wonder his garage is always busy and the car park usually has a wide range of customers' Mercedes parked outside.

 

[MOCAŠ]

One thing I've often wondered about with indies is how they keep their mechanics up to date with the constant developments that manufacturers introduce to their cars. One of the points that my MB dealership makes on its invoice folders is that its technicians are guaranteed to have received up to the minute training, and that they are audited twice a year to ensure that their skills remain up to scratch.

How do indies compete with this level of training? You often see them advertise as having a "fully [manufacturer]-trained workforce", but was that training acquired before the mechanic joined the indie, and if so, how many yeears out of date might it now be? Fine for those that own an older model, I suppose - perhaps that's why people tend to use the MB network for the first three or four years before defecting, in the hope that enough MB-trianed technicians will also have jumped ship by then?

Or do the better indies pay for their staff to attend all the manufacturers' courses and briefings? In fact, are these even open to people outside the franchised networks?

I'd be interested to know how this works, especially for indies that don't just specialise in a single marque.

 

[nick mercedes]

they are audited twice a year to ensure that their skills remain up to scratch.

Most MB trained men are just parts throwers.

They either do what the computer (Star) tells them to or throw enough new parts at a car until it's fixed, sooner or later they'll replace the right bit.

I'd not get too excited about MB training.

 

[Will]

I think it's worth noting that a number of the better technicians who are intelligent/efficient at what they do tend to leave to set up their own businesses.

At the end of the day, training is one thing, experience is another. I'd prefer someone with intelligence and say 10-20 years of experience with working on cars to someone who might have just finished training but is lacking in real world experience.

In an indi garage environment you're also more accountable for your work. Not shielded behind the hierarchy of working behind the scenes at a main dealer!

I guess what I'm trying to say is that there's no guarantee that by using a main dealer you're getting the best - in terms of quality or value for money.

 

[Dryce]

Most MB trained men are just parts throwers.

They either do what the computer (Star) tells them to or throw enough new parts at a car until it's fixed, sooner or later they'll replace the right bit.

I'd not get too excited about MB training.

I think this just about sums it up for most industry sectors that involve training and accreditation on fixing stuff.

Very few people are capable of working a difficult or subtle problem. Larger 'respectable' organisations tend to act like all their staff are trained and capable. Typically it's just the odd one or two who are the real problem solvers. The rest are not that good.

The question is how many technicians 'fail' these courses? (My experience of some technical courses its that they are hard to fail as long as you simply turn up).

 

[Terry_]

One thing I've often wondered about with indies is how they keep their mechanics up to date with the constant developments that manufacturers introduce to their cars. One of the points that my MB dealership makes on its invoice folders is that its technicians are guaranteed to have received up to the minute training, and that they are audited twice a year to ensure that their skills remain up to scratch.

How do indies compete with this level of training? You often see them advertise as having a "fully [manufacturer]-trained workforce", but was that training acquired before the mechanic joined the indie, and if so, how many yeears out of date might it now be? Fine for those that own an older model, I suppose - perhaps that's why people tend to use the MB network for the first three or four years before defecting, in the hope that enough MB-trianed technicians will also have jumped ship by then?

Or do the better indies pay for their staff to attend all the manufacturers' courses and briefings? In fact, are these even open to people outside the franchised networks?

I'd be interested to know how this works, especially for indies that don't just specialise in a single marque.

If we need to go on courses at mb uk we can. We just pay for them. No different.

 

[BlackC55]

One thing I've often wondered about with indies is how they keep their mechanics up to date with the constant developments that manufacturers introduce to their cars. One of the points that my MB dealership makes on its invoice folders is that its technicians are guaranteed to have received up to the minute training, and that they are audited twice a year to ensure that their skills remain up to scratch.

How do indies compete with this level of training? You often see them advertise as having a "fully [manufacturer]-trained workforce", but was that training acquired before the mechanic joined the indie, and if so, how many yeears out of date might it now be? Fine for those that own an older model, I suppose - perhaps that's why people tend to use the MB network for the first three or four years before defecting, in the hope that enough MB-trianed technicians will also have jumped ship by then?

Or do the better indies pay for their staff to attend all the manufacturers' courses and briefings? In fact, are these even open to people outside the franchised networks?

I'd be interested to know how this works, especially for indies that don't just specialise in a single marque.

I do. We have training about 3 times a year. I have a course soon to go on. I can go on any of the MB training courses. Any decent garage will train their staff otherwise they won't be in business very long.

In a dealer I know 3 techs are ex Vauxhall. They didn't get any training for at least a year. The first course is the "Welcome to Mercedes-Benz" type of thing. This teaches you about the brand etc. They all had to learn the tricky stuff on the job and this is quite typical. The courses only teach you how "it" works, not what goes wrong. Thats up to you as a tech to work out.

Most MB trained men are just parts throwers.

They either do what the computer (Star) tells them to or throw enough new parts at a car until it's fixed, sooner or later they'll replace the right bit.

I'd not get too excited about MB training.

This is such a narrow point of view. Us independets can't do this. We would never make any money! The Star isn't a miracle worker.

Nick, you know better than that i'm sure.

 

[Dieselman]

This is such a narrow point of view. Us independets can't do this. We would never make any money! The Star isn't a miracle worker.

Nick, you know better than that i'm sure.

I suspect Nick meant dealer Techs, not independent ones. The MB training won't make a mechanic a good one, it will just give a product overview, only a natural Engineer will be a good mechanic.

 

[hotrodder]

^^ That's how i read Nick's post. I would have thought there's little point in dealers training the majority of techs fitters to be 'proper' mechanics as dealer hourly rates make many (most?) repairs at the component level less economic than replacement. Especially when stealer margins on parts is factored in... [/tongue in cheek]