Mercedes 'AMG Sport' sub brand....

[gIzzE]

Everyone's at it... M-Sport, S-Line..

But this is missing the point of what Mercedes are offering, something to go against Audi S Cars, they have AMG to go against M Cars and RS cars, this is something to go up against the S4, S6 etc.
Not all out hardcore models that can be tracked, they will be quick, plenty quick enough for everyday on the road, and they will have upgraded suspension and brakes etc. but will still be very comfy every day, albeit fat cars.

So you have....

AMG cars, proper hardcore road cars. (Audi RS and BMW Motorsport)

AMG Styling - which just makes the regular models look nice. (Audi S-Line and BMW M-Sport)

AMG Sport - Everyday road cars with that little bit more. (Audi S and BMW M like the M135i, M550d etc.)

 

[markjay]

I believe that all three offer AMG/M/S suspension (respectively) on their non-AMG/M/RS models, so it goes beyond being just an aesthetic trim level.

 

[markjay]

This is in fact not new, Vauxhall's SR range (and the Omega MV) offered sporty external and internal trim level with lowered and stiffened suspension but standard engines (in a similar way to MB's 'Avantgarde'), while the SRi and VXR models offered also tuned engines.

 

[Red C220]

But this is missing the point of what Mercedes are offering, something to go against Audi S Cars, they have AMG to go against M Cars and RS cars, this is something to go up against the S4, S6 etc.
Not all out hardcore models that can be tracked, they will be quick, plenty quick enough for everyday on the road, and they will have upgraded suspension and brakes etc. but will still be very comfy every day, albeit fat cars.

So you have....

AMG cars, proper hardcore road cars. (Audi RS and BMW Motorsport)

AMG Styling - which just makes the regular models look nice. (Audi S-Line and BMW M-Sport)

AMG Sport - Everyday road cars with that little bit more. (Audi S and BMW M like the M135i, M550d etc.)

I share this view.

There was a gaping hole in the model line up at this level. There simply was no Mercedes alternative to Audi "S cars" and that's what I'm certainly interested in.

I totally understand why you'd want to own a full fat AMG, but it's not my bag for daily driving, an AMG Sport sounds perfect though.

Another question.

To those who feel the brand is being devalued what is your stance on A class AMG models for the masses? Are they devaluing the brand?

AMG are selling more units then ever, 40,000 this last year I think I read elsewhere on this forum. Is that making your own AMG less exclusive?

 

[sjmaxwell]

If you mean the A45, that is an AMG

If you mean taking a A Class CDI and saying it's an AMG Sport then no!!

 

[Giantvanman]

If you mean the A45, that is an AMG

If you mean taking a A Class CDI and saying it's an AMG Sport then no!!

To be fair, there have been some posts that are quite derogatory in relation to the A45 and it not being a real AMG. The point being, it is all a perception thing. Surely the Sport moniker shows that it is a 'dressed up standard car' rather than an AMG (no sport moniker). Just a thought or two.

 

[John Jones Jr]

Is it me, as I'd only want a full fat AMG? Then I'd probably debadge it. Brabus future sales growth looks promising.

 

[grober]

I think the main issue is that the vast majority of people can't tell and are not aware that there is a difference between say an E350Cdi E class estate and an E63 AMG estate. More so, they simply don't care.

It's basically the Louis Vuitton school of marketing.

Surely you have just described the Gerald Ratner school of marketing? and that didn't end up well?

ps Turbo charged V6 petrol 4WD models in the UK????? I very much doubt it---- surely aimed almost exclusively at the American Market??

 

[gIzzE]

...Turbo charged V6 petrol 4WD models in the UK????? I very much doubt it---- surely aimed almost exclusively at the American Market??

Why?

BMW have been doing very well with it in the UK over the last year or so.

Audi have always sold their S3, S4 and S6 well.

BMW is the biggest European 4x4 manufacturer*, just that we have had 30 years of 'Ultimate Driving Machine' thrown at us which makes that fact seem a little odd to comprehend in the UK.
But the point is, in only 2 years the xDrive BMWs are starting to sell and sell well, Mercedes will want a piece of that action I reckon.

If Mercedes offered a C250 4matic or an E250 4matic estate I bet many would consider it instead of an ML. The fact they are desperate to bring the new GLK over here as the UK is one of the main markets for AWD vehicles tells you a lot about Mercedes thoughts.



*To be fair that was back in 2009 before they had the x models in the UK, I presume now they have more markets with xdrive available that is still the case, but maybe Audi, VW, Mercedes or whoever may have overtaken them?

 

[nick mercedes]

Surely you have just described the Gerald Ratner school of marketing? and that didn't end up well?

It's how it is in most sectors, strip the costs out, make it look bling and sexy and sell it brighthouse style to anyone with a pulse and an address.

Problem is quality suffers, washing machines last 3 years instead of 10, but are cheaper now than they were 15 years ago, same with Mercedes....

 

[grober]

I can only go by Mercedes previous reluctance to develop RHD versions of these type of longitudinal engined cars. They already have a W205 C 400 4MATIC Limousine for LHD markets but not the UK? Likewise E400 4MATIC and E500 4MATICs. Simple job to bling these up to AMG sport spec for the USA. I would welcome such a development but will believe it when I see it. We will probably get the AMG" Sport " versions of the A class, CLA and GLA because its so much easier to "4MATIC " what starts out as a FWD car????

 

[Alex]

The AMG brand *is* being devalued: how many would buy a full AMG car when there's one available with everything AMG and a quick engine, for less?

Interestingly enough the same exact thing already happened before (e.g. detuned 600 vs 65AMG) but then it was AMG vs. Mercedes. Now AMG will be competing with themselves. With sub-AMGs outselling the real AMGs the brand will be losing its value in favour of a more affordable alternative which they created.

 

[Red C220]

I can only go by Mercedes previous reluctance to develop RHD versions of these type of longitudinal engined cars. They already have a W205 C 400 4MATIC Limousine for LHD markets but not the UK? Likewise E400 4MATIC and E500 4MATICs. Simple job to bling these up to AMG sport spec for the USA. I would welcome such a development but will believe it when I see it. We will probably get the AMG" Sport " versions of the A class, CLA and GLA because its so much easier to "4MATIC " what starts out as a FWD car????

Mercedes-Benz confirms new AMG Sport line-up | Autocar


Set to go on sale in the UK early next year, the new AMG Sport models are planned to sit between the wide array of Mercedes-Benz models available with an AMG styling package and the burgeoning range of full-blown AMG models headed by the company’s new GT.

Distinguishing the new AMG Sport models will be subtle exterior and interior styling changes, uniquely tuned engines, specially calibrated chassis settings and a more intense exhaust note.

First reported about by Autocar in August, the new line-up is planned to kick off with two models based on the C-class and upcoming GLE Coupe, which AMG boss, Tobias Moers, says will be revealed at the Detroit motor show in January. Further AMG Sport models are set to follow, although no time frame has been given for their introduction.

Autocar can also confirm the existence of a C450 AMG Sport model. Based on the existing C400, it receives a turbocharged 3.0-litre V6 direct injection petrol engine tuned by AMG to deliver in the region of 362bhp.

That’s 33bhp more than the standard C400, but 107bhp shy of the least powerful version of the new C63, which is powered by AMG’s new twin-turbocharged 4.0-litre V8 direct-injection petrol engine.

Along with the C-class, new AMG Sport models are expected to be added to the A-class, CLA, GLA, C-class Coupé, C-class Cabriolet, SLC, upcoming GLC, E-class saloon, E-class Coupé, E-class Cabriolet, GLE and soon-to-be-revealed GLE Coupé and SL line-ups in time.

Meanwhile, AMG has announced it will achieve a new sales record of “well over 40,000” cars in 2014, thanks in part to the introduction of the new A45, CLA45 and GLA45. This is up from 32,000 in 2013.

With the introduction of its new AMG Sport line-up, Mercedes-Benz’s performance car off-shoot is targeting more than 64,000 sales by 2017.

“In the next three years we aim to more than double our total sales for 2013,” said Moers at the announcement of AMG's new model line at the company's headquarters in Affalterbach on the outskirts of Stuttgart in Germany today.

 

[gIzzE]

The AMG brand *is* being devalued: how many would buy a full AMG car when there's one available with everything AMG and a quick engine, for less?

Sorry, I think that is completely wrong.

People say the same about the S4 and RS4, nearly as quick. But drive them both and they are very different animals, they say it about the M235i vs the M3, the M235i is just as quick and £20,000 cheaper, but drive them both and the M235i is a very fast coupe that still feels comfy and useable every day, where as the M3 still feels far more raw.
Same with the 335i M-Sport, mine would do the sprint to 60 in 4.7 seconds everytime, faster than the M3 is replaced, but it was never an occasion like the M3, it was just a very quick motorway mile muncher.

I will be the same with these, the C63 will feel raw, a brute, a special occasion everytime you get in it and start it up, the C450 AMG will be a very quick but comfortable motorway mile muncher that still handles very nicely when you want a bit of B road fun.

 

[Red C220]

The AMG brand *is* being devalued: how many would buy a full AMG car when there's one available with everything AMG and a quick engine, for less?

Interestingly enough the same exact thing already happened before (e.g. detuned 600 vs 65AMG) but then it was AMG vs. Mercedes. Now AMG will be competing with themselves. With sub-AMGs outselling the real AMGs the brand will be losing its value in favour of a more affordable alternative which they created.

Those that want a V8 will still be able to buy them and probably will.

But plenty of BMW M power and Audi S Line customers will be enticed across to the AMG Sport brand.

Win Win.

 

[Alex]

Sorry, I think that is completely wrong.

People say the same about the S4 and RS4, nearly as quick. But drive them both and they are very different animals, they say it about the M235i vs the M3, the M235i is just as quick and £20,000 cheaper, but drive them both and the M235i is a very fast coupe that still feels comfy and useable every day, where as the M3 still feels far more raw.
Same with the 335i M-Sport, mine would do the sprint to 60 in 4.7 seconds everytime, faster than the M3 is replaced, but it was never an occasion like the M3, it was just a very quick motorway mile muncher.

I will be the same with these, the C63 will feel raw, a brute, a special occasion everytime you get in it and start it up, the C450 AMG will be a very quick but comfortable motorway mile muncher that still handles very nicely when you want a bit of B road fun.

Precisely. Now if there's more S4s out there than there's RS4s (vs all of them being RS4s), this will have contributed to the RS brand devaluation.

Those that want a V8 will still be able to buy them and probably will.

But plenty of BMW M power and Audi S Line customer will be enticed across to the AMG Sport brand.

Win Win.

From a customer's perspective, having more choice is better. The brand however will inevitably be losing its value when it has to compete with a cheaper model within the same range, which is what I was talking about.

 

[grober]

Mercedes-Benz confirms new AMG Sport line-up | Autocar


Set to go on sale in the UK early next year, the new AMG Sport models are planned to sit between the wide array of Mercedes-Benz models available with an AMG styling package and the burgeoning range of full-blown AMG models headed by the company’s new GT.

Distinguishing the new AMG Sport models will be subtle exterior and interior styling changes, uniquely tuned engines, specially calibrated chassis settings and a more intense exhaust note.

First reported about by Autocar in August, the new line-up is planned to kick off with two models based on the C-class and upcoming GLE Coupe, which AMG boss, Tobias Moers, says will be revealed at the Detroit motor show in January. Further AMG Sport models are set to follow, although no time frame has been given for their introduction.

Autocar can also confirm the existence of a C450 AMG Sport model. Based on the existing C400, it receives a turbocharged 3.0-litre V6 direct injection petrol engine tuned by AMG to deliver in the region of 362bhp.

That’s 33bhp more than the standard C400, but 107bhp shy of the least powerful version of the new C63, which is powered by AMG’s new twin-turbocharged 4.0-litre V8 direct-injection petrol engine.

Along with the C-class, new AMG Sport models are expected to be added to the A-class, CLA, GLA, C-class Coupé, C-class Cabriolet, SLC, upcoming GLC, E-class saloon, E-class Coupé, E-class Cabriolet, GLE and soon-to-be-revealed GLE Coupé and SL line-ups in time.

Meanwhile, AMG has announced it will achieve a new sales record of “well over 40,000” cars in 2014, thanks in part to the introduction of the new A45, CLA45 and GLA45. This is up from 32,000 in 2013.

With the introduction of its new AMG Sport line-up, Mercedes-Benz’s performance car off-shoot is targeting more than 64,000 sales by 2017.

“In the next three years we aim to more than double our total sales for 2013,” said Moers at the announcement of AMG's new model line at the company's headquarters in Affalterbach on the outskirts of Stuttgart in Germany today.

Forgive me but I find the article slightly ambiguous.
Implies AMG Sport models exist and will be coming to the UK -fair enough but does not say exactly which ones and when.
e.g.
Autocar can also confirm the existence???? of a C450 AMG Sport model.- what does that mean? Based on the existing C400, it receives a turbocharged 3.0-litre V6 direct injection petrol engine tuned by AMG to deliver in the region of 362bhp. Now a C400 4matic already exists in LHD but not in RHD as yet-----so at a push we might??? get a C450 V6 RWD model instead of the new C63 V8--if we are lucky.

 

[Red C220]

From a customer's perspective, having more choice is better. The brand however will inevitably be losing its value when it has to compete with a cheaper model within the same range, which is what I was talking about.

I don't see that in the slightest, these models being introduced are all likely to be north of £45K.

I don't see how a model line of that value devalues anything.

40,000 units a year is hardly exclusive to start with so aiming for 64,000 units by 2017 isn't really changing much at all.

It also depends from what perspective you view AMG to start with, there are many that consider anything less than 8 cylinders not a pure AMG to start with which discounts the entire A class series.

Back before AMG were part of Mercedes these were cars that were only accessible to very rich people.

A 560SEC AMG 6.0 DOHC or AMG hammer cost far more than any top of the range Ferrari, Aston martin or Bentley for that matter. They were exclusive in every meaning of the word.

If you really want to look at when the brand went commercial it was the C36AMG. The moment Mercedes decided to offer a C Class AMG car was when the dynamic of the bespoke exclusive vehicle became simply a branding exercise. That was 20 odd years ago. What we're seeing now is a logical progression. Nothing happening now is devaluing or diluting anything. That happened in 1990 when Mercedes took a controlling interest in AMG.

 

[Red C220]

Forgive me but I find the article slightly ambiguous.
Implies AMG Sport models exist and will be coming to the UK -fair enough but does not say exactly which ones and when.
e.g.
Autocar can also confirm the existence???? of a C450 AMG Sport model.- what does that mean? Based on the existing C400, it receives a turbocharged 3.0-litre V6 direct injection petrol engine tuned by AMG to deliver in the region of 362bhp. Now a C400 4matic already exists in LHD but not in RHD as yet-----so at a push we might??? get a C450 V6 RWD model instead of the new C63 V8--if we are lucky.

I guess it will become apparent when they start rolling out the models. It's a step in the right direction IMO.

 

[BTB 500]

It also depends from what perspective you view AMG to start with, there are many that consider anything less than 8 cylinders not a pure AMG to start with which discounts the entire A class series.

And the C32 and SLK32 in the past, as well as the C36 you already mentioned