Mercedes 'AMG Sport' sub brand....

[C36fan]

And the C32 and SLK32 in the past, as well as the C36 you already mentioned

The C36 AMG is the daddy of them all ! All started there!

need for speed!

 

[markjay]

The AMG brand is not devalued because of badge engineering...

It is devalued because MB intentionally increased production, reduced prices, and tempted buyers with cheap leasing deals (on some models) to increase sales.

So instead of an AMG being a rare site that gets children and grown-up man excited when spotted, there's one in every street corner.

It's as simple as currency inflation: make more cars, and each will be worth less...

They are just not as exclusive as they used to be. I see far more C63 than M3 or M5 cars.

 

[gIzzE]

You here this all the time on the BMW forums "An M Car is not a proper M car unless it has at least 8 cylinders."

To me these cars are whatever the manufacturer wants them to be at the time.

To me an M car was a lightweight highly tuned 4 cylinder as we saw with the E30 M3.
Then we got the 3.5 litre 6 cyl M5 in the E28, followed by the 3.6 litre straight six E34 (then 3.8 litre 6).
We also got an increase to 6cyl with the E36 M3, then we got the 8 cyl E39 M5, followed by the V10 in the E60 and now we are back to seeing 6cyl engines again, back to what an M3 was all about, decent power to weight ratios, nimble on its toes. But oh no, it isn't a proper M car without at least 8 cylinders.


Says who??


They need to make cars that sell, you either buy or you don't.

 

[C36fan]

The AMG brand is not devalued because of badge engineering... It is devalued because MB intentionally increased production, reduced prices, and tempted buyers with cheap leasing deals (on some models) to increase sales. So instead of an AMG being a rare site that gets children and grown-up man excited when spotted, there's one in every street corner. It's as simple as currency inflation: make more cars, and each will be worth less... They are just not as exclusive as they used to be. I see far more C63 than M3 or M5 cars.

you have seen more C63 because they are the best!

need for speed!

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Sorry, I think that is completely wrong.

Mercedes are doing what all fashion houses do; heavily publicise their top product, their halo, so it will attract punters that think their rattly little four pot diesel can be mistaken for a fire breathing V8.

I mean, some of the 'fashion' seen on the catwalk is only designed to shock i.e. publicity.

 

[Alex]

I don't see that in the slightest, these models being introduced are all likely to be north of £45K.

I don't see how a model line of that value devalues anything.

40,000 units a year is hardly exclusive to start with so aiming for 64,000 units by 2017 isn't really changing much at all.

It also depends from what perspective you view AMG to start with, there are many that consider anything less than 8 cylinders not a pure AMG to start with which discounts the entire A class series.

Back before AMG were part of Mercedes these were cars that were only accessible to very rich people.

A 560SEC AMG 6.0 DOHC or AMG hammer cost far more than any top of the range Ferrari, Aston martin or Bentley for that matter. They were exclusive in every meaning of the word.

If you really want to look at when the brand went commercial it was the C36AMG. The moment Mercedes decided to offer a C Class AMG car was when the dynamic of the bespoke exclusive vehicle became simply a branding exercise. That was 20 odd years ago. What we're seeing now is a logical progression. Nothing happening now is devaluing or diluting anything. That happened in 1990 when Mercedes took a controlling interest in AMG.

The merge has certainly made AMGs more accessible to the general public, while increasing the overall quality of the brand, thanks to strong Mercedes funding. I think it was a good and highly successful move for all involved.

The strategy was different back then, as very few models bore AMG badge and didn't follow the full Mercedes life cycle for any given chassis.

Life was simple, petrol cheap and Mercedes always had their own share of V8 engines on the shelf. Now that it's all gone, we end up with a myriad of new model names (that make marketing to explain them to the world), a handful of puny engines and a whole new subdivision that can (and will) potentially take some (if not all) of AMG's business.

Perhaps a more clever approach would have been to start offering a wider selection of engines within the same AMG chassis that covers wide audience yet allows them to co-exist (like S63 & S65 for example).

Happy to be wrong but it doesn't look very thought through move from over here.

 

[Charles Morgan]

You here this all the time on the BMW forums "An M Car is not a proper M car unless it has at least 8 cylinders."

A recent post on a Porsche site about a 4 cylinder Boxster was on similar lines - so now Porsche are selling out producing a 4 cylinder...

 

[gIzzE]

I mean, some of the 'fashion' seen on the catwalk is only designed to shock i.e. publicity.

But you carry it off so well Lee!!

 

[Deleted member 37751]

But you carry it off so well Lee!!

Suits you sir!

 

[Red C220]

Having thought about this a bit and read the responses, for me it comes down to this.

I'd like an E400/E450 Estate, with a nice sporty look. I'm not overly bothered what they call it as I actually take the badges off my cars anyhow.

So if this AMG Sport Line brings more variety, that's a good thing surely?

 

[def90cars]

You here this all the time on the BMW forums "An M Car is not a proper M car unless it has at least 8 cylinders."

To me these cars are whatever the manufacturer wants them to be at the time.

To me an M car was a lightweight highly tuned 4 cylinder as we saw with the E30 M3.
Then we got the 3.5 litre 6 cyl M5 in the E28, followed by the 3.6 litre straight six E34 (then 3.8 litre 6).
We also got an increase to 6cyl with the E36 M3, then we got the 8 cyl E39 M5, followed by the V10 in the E60 and now we are back to seeing 6cyl engines again, back to what an M3 was all about, decent power to weight ratios, nimble on its toes. But oh no, it isn't a proper M car without at least 8 cylinders.


Says who??


They need to make cars that sell, you either buy or you don't.

Just an opinion. M-cars should be 6 cylinder - M1 was before the E30

 

[gIzzE]

I think the cars you grow up with are those that you consider 'heritage'.

 

[def90cars]

I think the cars you grow up with are those that you consider 'heritage'.

Agreed.

Karl Benz thinks all Mercedes should be 2 cylinder and steered with a tiller?

New 4 cylinder AMGs with 4 wheels drive are as exciting and as relevant as a 190 2.3-16 or SEL 6.3 were in their day.

 

[Alex]

Having thought about this a bit and read the responses, for me it comes down to this.

I'd like an E400/E450 Estate, with a nice sporty look. I'm not overly bothered what they call it as I actually take the badges off my cars anyhow.

So if this AMG Sport Line brings more variety, that's a good thing surely?

And it's all fine of course but the same E400/450 Estate could be marketed as part of Mercedes range (available with authentic AMG upgrades), or a part of the AMG lineup and with proper body kit, not the resemblance of one like on non-AMG Mercs these days.

 

[Red C220]

And it's all fine of course but the same E400/450 Estate could be marketed as part of Mercedes range (available with authentic AMG upgrades), or a part of the AMG lineup and with proper body kit, not the resemblance of one like on non-AMG Mercs these days.

Isn't that exactly what they are doing?

 

[John Jones Jr]

New 4 cylinder AMGs with 4 wheels drive are as exciting and as relevant as a 190 2.3-16 or SEL 6.3 were in their day.

I'm unsure about that, can't put my finger on it as to exactly why, bar one was built for the sole purpose of rallying (which ended up a stalled competition project) and the other was never a planned M-B model & originally built unbeknown to management (if there was ever a reason to buy a 300SEL 6.3, that's a bloody good one).
Of course they're from different eras too and the marketing boys & girls nowadays are far more sophisticated. The two later models carry an air of being less sales orientated (their small production numbers would seem to support that) and more about M-B flag waving while the A45 is totally sales focused not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

[def90cars]

I'm unsure about that, can't put my finger on it as to exactly why, bar one was built for the sole purpose of rallying (which ended up a stalled competition project) and the other was never a planned M-B model & originally built unbeknown to management (if there was ever a reason to buy a 300SEL 6.3, that's a bloody good one).
Of course they're from different eras too and the marketing boys & girls nowadays are far more sophisticated. The two later models carry an air of being less sales orientated (their small production numbers would seem to support that) and more about M-B flag waving while the A45 is totally sales focused not that there's anything wrong with that.

Whilst I agree with your points, my point is that rally specials and one-custom builds are a thing of the past (in "main-stream" terms) because of costs and regulations.
These mass-customisation models (AMG/RS/Mcars) are the modern version. Just like the aspiring rally driver 17 year old used to watch Roger Clark in his works Escort RS, dream of owning an RS2000, his rich mate had an Escort 1300 Sport, he had a 1.1 Pop with an RS front and rear spoiler.

We are just doing the same with AMG.

The only real AMG performance cars say Petronas on the side?

 

[Alex]

Isn't that exactly what they are doing?

Not the way I see it.

 

[John Jones Jr]

These mass-customisation models (AMG/RS/Mcars) are the modern version.


The only real AMG performance cars say Petronas on the side?

A very timely article here: Bring back the four-cylinder M car: PH blog - PistonHeads

As for AMG's association with F1, I honestly never make the connection bar the pace & medical cars.

 

[grober]

The only real AMG performance cars say Petronas on the side?

That's the AMG CARS that are built in the little known German town of Affa---Affalter----Affalterba-------Brackley, Northamptonshire ??