New ML Navigation Mods

[Tony M]

I have just bought a new shape ML 500 and was bitterly disappointed with the navigation system. I have moaned to MB about it, but the response has been lukewarm.

I am not alone with my complaints.

The good news is that I have found a guy that can solve all of the problems and actually provide exactly what I want.

An Alpine Navigation computer NVE-N099P is to be fitted to output to the existing display screen, so no dashboard or Comand mods are needed. The new Alpine will come with a remote control unit. The choice is then there to use either Navigation system.

A TV tuner,DVD player, Rear headrest screens and headphones will be added. The whole lot will incorporate a switching unit, and fitting will be done in the Home garage.

If you look long enough, there is always somebody out there that can provide what you want.[]

 

[oddball]

NOW I am fighting with ML500 to install Panasonic DVD navigation.
I will tell you when I beat genuine navigation system of ML500(W164).

 

[miro]

I have just bought a new shape ML 500 and was bitterly disappointed with the navigation system. I have moaned to MB about it, but the response has been lukewarm.

I am not alone with my complaints.

The good news is that I have found a guy that can solve all of the problems and actually provide exactly what I want.

An Alpine Navigation computer NVE-N099P is to be fitted to output to the existing display screen, so no dashboard or Comand mods are needed. The new Alpine will come with a remote control unit. The choice is then there to use either Navigation system.

A TV tuner,DVD player, Rear headrest screens and headphones will be added. The whole lot will incorporate a switching unit, and fitting will be done in the Home garage.

If you look long enough, there is always somebody out there that can provide what you want.[]

With the exception of your choice of Nav. The rest is sold by Mercedes for the ML (W164).

 

[glojo]

I have just bought a new shape ML 500 and was bitterly disappointed with the navigation system. I have moaned to MB about it, but the response has been lukewarm.

What are your gripes about the ML's system is it just the bells and whistles (graphics) or is it more serious (mapping)?

Regards,
John

 

[Tony M]

What are your gripes about the ML's system is it just the bells and whistles (graphics) or is it more serious (mapping)?

Regards,
John

The system in the ML is Slow to respond, the features are poor, the Points of interest are of no interest to me, the system will not play DVD films, and all in all it is a cheapskate system that is fitted to the low cost range of MB vehicles.

The new Alpine system will run in parallel with the crap MB system and in it's standard form the existing MB system has no official MB upgrades.

 

[Tony M]

With the exception of your choice of Nav. The rest is sold by Mercedes for the ML (W164).

You tell me how to order it,and what parts are needed and I will award you a Medal and eat humble pie !

As far as MB are concerned the furthest that they will concede is that they are to produce an upgraded disc sometime this year or maybe next year.

 

[glojo]

The system in the ML is Slow to respond, the features are poor, the Points of interest are of no interest to me, the system will not play DVD films, and all in all it is a cheapskate system that is fitted to the low cost range of MB vehicles.

The new Alpine system will run in parallel with the crap MB system and in it's standard form the existing MB system has no official MB upgrades.

Hi Tony,
Thanks for responding the way you have, the only way the system will improve is if folks like us document our complaints in a constructive manner and forward them onto the manufacturer and hope they listen.

It is sad that the different Mercedes-Benz models have such differing specification COMAND's. I accept that top of the range models should quite rightly have more toys than lesser models, but the DVD navigation should really have similar basic functions wrote by the same mapping company?? You have 'moaned' to Mercedes-Benz, but have you put your complaints in writing and received and official response? (I don't mean a casual e-mail) I certainly would not consider the ML500 a 'cheap' Mercedes-Benz, you deserve better!

Are you saying the ML will not play DVD films when the vehicle is stationary? I ask this because it goes back to my previous statement about different models performing differently. Our system will play DVD films. I can understand your frustration and hopefully the system might be upgraded.

I don't know if the new ML has the same system as the 211, (Miro will know the answer ) but I find the 211's quite adequate. Having pretty 3D pictures and birds eye views are all very nice to look at when your STATIONARY but clear concise directions (hopefully roundabout problems are now resolved) and the nice little directional arrows on the speedometer are all I want.

What are the Points of Interest that you fill should be present but are missing? I'll check mine and if I feel they should be there I will certainly write and complain.

We have had either three or four DVD upgrades for the E-class in eighteen months and are all anxiously waiting for the next release to upgrade our systems to receive TMC, but at over £340 per DVD it is an expensive hobby. Mercedes have also upgraded the COMAND free of charge several times in the short time we have owned our car and I don't think there are many manufacturers that do that?

I have a Pioneer DVD system in our other vehicle which has more gimmicks than the Mercedes-Benz system, but the mapping software is wrote by the same company, however the Mercedes information is more up to date. (still years behind regarding road information though)

Good luck,
John

 

[Tony M]

Hi John,

That is quite a post to reply to but I will try to answer each point:

I have moaned about the system and the software and MB have said that in response to customer complaints they will be producing a revised Disc with better information on it.

The ML system , in common with the C class, A class, Smart and CLK all have the cheapskate system that will not play DVD films etc even though there is a 'Video' button on the system.

The 'Points of Interest' issue that I have relate to Hotels and Restaurants. The good system has good places and the ML system only lists the likes of Mc Donalds and Pizza Hut etc.

In the 'E' Class you have the upmarket system, and even if it needs upgrading for whatever reason then the basic info is quite good to start with.

The mapping information is licenced by Teleatlas to MB and they have chosen to purchase the low grade Data for their perception of the low grade MB vehicles. That is what really pees me off most about MB's logic.

 

[glojo]

In the 'E' Class you have the upmarket system, and even if it needs upgrading for whatever reason then the basic info is quite good to start with.

Hi Tony,
Apologies for the long message (I have been known to waffle)

I totally understand where your coming from and to me it seems crazy to have a lower specification COMAND in such an excellent vehicle.

There must be some logic in the decision to have both NAVTEQ and TELEATLAS DVD systems. If I were spending in excess of £50,000 for an M-class then I would want a decent navigation system.

I understand the very basic OTR price for the ML500 Sport is £49925 before you attack the options list.

Regards,
John the Waffler

Edit:
Just noticed the COMAND for the M is approx £1760
for the E it is approx £1990

 

[miro]

You tell me how to order it,and what parts are needed and I will award you a Medal and eat humble pie !

As far as MB are concerned the furthest that they will concede is that they are to produce an upgraded disc sometime this year or maybe next year.

* Rear seat entertainment system [option 864]
* TV tuner (digital and analogue with 2xAUX ) [option 863]
* iPOD interface kit
* Harmon Kardon surround sound [option 810]

I presume this is the 2005+ ML

 

[miro]

The system in the ML is Slow to respond, the features are poor, the Points of interest are of no interest to me, the system will not play DVD films, and all in all it is a cheapskate system that is fitted to the low cost range of MB vehicles.

The new Alpine system will run in parallel with the crap MB system and in it's standard form the existing MB system has no official MB upgrades.

The POI is in the map not the car. AS better maps come out then the content will improve. Just look at the S-Class version.

 

[Tony M]

* Rear seat entertainment system [option 864]
* TV tuner (digital and analogue with 2xAUX ) [option 863]
* iPOD interface kit
* Harmon Kardon surround sound [option 810]

I presume this is the 2005+ ML

*The rear seat Entertainment system is a single bolt on screen that wobbles around above the Air Vents of the cetre console/Armrest.When it is folded it blocks the Air vents.

* I'm not sure about the TV Tuner, but in my accessory book and 'New' options price list it is missing

* If you have the I pod interface apparently you need to give up the CD changer as there are insufficint inputs on the low grade Comand.

*I already have the HK sound system.



Regarding the Data, I am aware that the POIs are on the Disc and that the S, SL, E and CLS classes all have more upmarket Data. MB have finally admitted that they have received many complaints about the 'Budget' data POIs thay have used and they are working on a better 'Quality' disc. Even when the new disc is released, there will still be a 30 -45 second wait for the clunky old processor to sort the data. (The Alpine is almost instant)

Last month I was in Japan and even the Dashtop Sony system in the Hire car was better than the ML system. It even had a screen display that gave a Virtual realitly picture of the more complicated Junctions which included such detail as Building names, Trees, kerbside parking bays and road signs. If the Japanese can have such a sophisticated system, why can't MB have a system that compares ?

As John points out, the ML Sat Nav is cheaper than the E class system. This is the illogical bit, when a loaded ML at £59,000 is more expensive than an E class.

Thanks for your input Miro.

 

[miro]

*The rear seat Entertainment system is a single bolt on screen that wobbles around above the Air Vents of the cetre console/Armrest.When it is folded it blocks the Air vents.

+++ No that is only the aftermarket kit not the headrest version.


* I'm not sure about the TV Tuner, but in my accessory book and 'New' options price list it is missing

+++ Yes well coal power is still a big force in England


* If you have the I pod interface apparently you need to give up the CD changer as there are insufficint inputs on the low grade Comand.

+++ Sorry, that is not true. iPOD is valid for all ML variants.


*I already have the HK sound system.

+++ Enjoy.

 

[miro]

Even when the new disc is released, there will still be a 30 -45 second wait for the clunky old processor to sort the data. (The Alpine is almost instant)

Mercedes probably make a calculation that the average guided trip is longer than 30-45 seconds.

 

[saorbust]

I've resisted replying to this for a while.

The data is provided as you say by either Teleatlas or some other third party. Have you tried the Michellin versions? I've no doubt they would have a better class of POI - especially food wise.

Fundamentally the navigation system is about guiding you to a point. If that point isn't provided as a value add, why can't you just input the post code and street name !?

I don't disagree that perhaps the standard disc isn't upto scratch in a car costing £59,000 - but then MB don't actually make it. If they are to blame its the quality validation of the sourcing that needs addressing, not the head unit.

Regarding the price of the ML and the various Nav systems - don't agree. A loaded E500 would cost more than £60k, versus a loaded ML500. Given one is an off roader and the other a mid range exec saloon - its a bit apples and pears. A pure cynic could argue that almost £60k for an off roader is a bit much ! Isn't the R Class meant to be the luxury version of the ML Class ?

Apart from all the gripes I take it the actual car is very nice ? Be good to know what you think of it.

 

[miro]

The data is provided as you say by either Teleatlas or some other third party. Have you tried the Michellin versions?

I didnt know that Michelin had such a thing. Nice thing to know if I ever travel and rent.

 

[prprandall51]

Does anyone know who the OEM supplier of the ML navigation is - Siemens, Bosch, etc? The E Class is Siemens (I think).

In terms of map data - in my opinion I am always glad to get Tele Atlas data - it is (literally) years ahead of Navteq. This is much more important to me than the POIs. I would swap my Navteq system (with quite good POIs) for TeleAtlas any day, after all, if the road simply isn't in the system then it is never going to get you there!

In terms of POIs - they are all mapped and available on both Navteq and TeleAtlas - it is a question of how much the Systems Integrator / vehicle manufacturer (Siemens / MB) want to pay for them.

I am shocked to hear that the ML system should be so inferior to the E Class. I would certainly not be happy with a Nav system that takes 45 seconds to calculate a route - even the early systems of the mid 90's were faster than that!

Philip

 

[glojo]

Regarding the price of the ML and the various Nav systems - don't agree. A loaded E500 would cost more than £60k, versus a loaded ML500. Given one is an off roader and the other a mid range exec saloon - its a bit apples and pears. A pure cynic could argue that almost £60k for an off roader is a bit much ! Isn't the R Class meant to be the luxury version of the ML Class ?

Good morning Saorbust,
I always enjoy reading your replies and to a certain degree I agree about your 'apples and pears' analogue, but do you seriously believe that an ML500 is going to be used as an off roader?? When I listed the prices I used the standard specification and the ML500 is way more expensive. The E-class saloon starts off at £45,250, going up to £46720 for the Sport. The ML has just the one price for both the SE and Sport both are £49155. Even the name 'Sport' illustrates that perhaps the M might be better suited to our highways, rather than the 'bye-ways'.

I am not impressed with the quality of street\road information on the NAVTEQ system and as you know I eventually got them to update the Devon and Cornwall Mercedes-Benz Dealership locations which was years out of date. They state how they have cars permanantly out on our roads updating their database, but the M6 toll road never existed for some considerable time (is it there?) Are you saying the TELEATLAS system is better? If this is the case then surely it is worth a short delay to get the superior information? I accept it should not be necessary, but that is a seperate issue.

Regarding the full debate though I don't accept that the M-class should have an inferior COMAND when compared to the E-class. If the E-class can play video, they the 'M' should, can the 'M' play Mp3's?

I am interested in what is available in Japan but it is not really relevant to this debate (although I respect the author of this threads opinion)

Regards,
John

 

[Tony M]

Does anyone know who the OEM supplier of the ML navigation is - Siemens, Bosch, etc? The E Class is Siemens (I think).

Philip

Hi Philip, The new DVD based Systems are manufactured by Harman/Becker.

In the cheapskate version, the navigation disc has to be inseted into the actual head unit, and it runs only a DVD APS Version 4.0 Disc. There is no Video facility, but temptingly they give you a button marked 'Video' on the Comand.

In the upmarket version the navigation disc is inserted in the boot mounted reader, and the slot in the head unit will accept and play video.The disc is DVD APS version 4.1. This disc has the better quality POIs, and reading the disc is pretty quick.

There is no 'Mitchellin' data on the Version 4.0 disc, but it is on the 4.1 disc

The data is supplied under licence by Teleatlas for both systems. The Discs are not actually made by Harman/Becker, and Lord knows who does make them.

Harman Becker make the Hardware for other manufacturers such as Audi and BMW. The Navigation discs that run in these cars have the Mitchellin data on POIs. Sadly the discs will not load in a ML !

I have a current SL with a CD rom based Navigation. If we are say in the Midlands and fancy lunch, I can insert the standard disc with Mitchellin Restaurant guide if I want somewhere posh.Alternatively, if i only want a quick Burger, I insert a disc I pinched from one of our new VW Caddy vans,which only lists the Fast food places and Steakhouses.

 

[Howard]

So the moral of the story is ....

If you have a SL you want to eat in a Michelin starred restaurant
If you have a VW van you like burgers ......