- Joined
- Feb 8, 2007
- Messages
- 20,693
- Location
- Portsmouth, Hampshire.
- Car
- E55K SL500 E250X2 Smart44 Brabus Track car E450Cabriolet X350 Pick up
Its much harder than a 612 manifold I assure you.
Oil leak. M642 again.
- Thread starter Martyn_n
- Start date
Martyn_n
Active Member
Confidence suitably battered!!
I saw a man do it on youtube in about ten minutes, his hands did move really fast and the sun did cross the sky quite quickly where he lived though.
There is a lot of dismantling to get to the oil cooler unfortunately. If you did do it yourself then you would save a bunch of cash and could do a proper job of cleaning the manifold out at the same time.
BTW if you bought the car from a dealer less than six months ago then you may still have a claim against the dealer for the repair despite the exclusions in the warranty.
BTW if you bought the car from a dealer less than six months ago then you may still have a claim against the dealer for the repair despite the exclusions in the warranty.
Tuercas viejas
MB Enthusiast
Yes I tend to agree .
AND
A comeback in that area after H/E seal repair is not unusual either.
As a footnote cleaning all that sound absorbtion material on belly pans soaked in oil is a chore to come clean, & oil free even with industrial strength detergent & pressure washing before customer hand over .
Tuercas Viejas
A comment or two.
It is very easy to misplace the seals ,even ever so slightly . The register is only minimaly grooved and as you offer the H/E to the crankcase its easy to allow the two seals to "shift" and be pinched by the snugging down of the H/E assy. The leak then oocurs at a later date and then its FIAT time on the shop's dime!
The same can be said of the gasket on the turbo pillar arr all under pressure. In both cases the lost oil will flood the valley and escape via a weep hole and drip out onto the starter motor
Now I see prices of 850 quid (1150 bucks) for such a job , in short the dealership in question is either diddling itself or paying its techs peanuts to work on a premium product.
Maybe even on flat rate pay schemes. If anyone want an explanation of Flat Rate ask----It encourages sloppy/ shoddy workmanship in an effort to remain competitive in the high st.
Add that to menu pricing and its a recipe for comebacks. Auto repair shops are NOT Mc Donald's !
A regretable incident in the making .
My shop works on ZERO comebacks because even a simple comeback like a bad bulb will cost the shop (my shop, a minimum of $147 (108 quid) at current rates.)
I would be interested to see what UK repair shops are making in profit mark ups and staff repair activity efficiencies against parts mark up, hours sold & hours built to a job.
Saludos
Tuercas Viejas
FIAT --Fix It Again Tony !!
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MrGreedy
MB Enthusiast
The two garages I've had quotes for the oil cooler seals were, as far as I can tell, at cost for parts, and something like £80-85 an hour for Labour.
Parts are Merc genuine. I don't know if they can get them cheaper than shown on the invoice, but the prices show for the gaskets and oil cooler were very competitive so I'm happy.
This is from Mercedes independent specialists in towns with populations of 50k and 70k residents. But people will travel long distances to get to those garages and they book up weeks in advance, so I guess downtime is limited.
They do their work very quickly as in my view they are super experienced and I was surprised on a recent visit for brake fluid, ATF for 722.9, A Service and MOT it was all done inside 3 hours! Plus they fixed something else minor but not related for free whilst they did that.
Parts are Merc genuine. I don't know if they can get them cheaper than shown on the invoice, but the prices show for the gaskets and oil cooler were very competitive so I'm happy.
This is from Mercedes independent specialists in towns with populations of 50k and 70k residents. But people will travel long distances to get to those garages and they book up weeks in advance, so I guess downtime is limited.
They do their work very quickly as in my view they are super experienced and I was surprised on a recent visit for brake fluid, ATF for 722.9, A Service and MOT it was all done inside 3 hours! Plus they fixed something else minor but not related for free whilst they did that.
Tuercas viejas
MB Enthusiast
So what was the charge for that service may I ask ?.
(i.e. recent visit for brake fluid, ATF for 722.9, A Service and MOT it was all done inside 3 hours! Plus they fixed something else minor but not related for free whilst they did that.
I can from the R/O charges, work out their profit margins.)
By the way much of that work you mentioned would have no doubt been done on a hoist.
Hoists are the biggest shop revenue earners, you cannot allow vehiles to be idle on it.
Tuercas viejas
MrGreedy
MB Enthusiast
The cooler quotes were in the £850 region and i went with one of those, and the list of other work I mentioned was around £450.
I don't want to say to the exact £1, because things do crop up on these jobs and therefore some cost variance should be expected, and I don't want potential customers going into a garage demanding what they are going to pay. Trustworthy garages charge you for what they do and don't bump extras on for the sake of it.
Tuercas viejas
MB Enthusiast
Interesting & thanks for the added tariff on the additional service & repairs etc.
My immediate thoughts are the labour content, is cheap.
For info on this side a shop can only add 10% of the R/O value by consumer law since both customer & repair have entered into a simple contract.
The proceedure is as follows:-
Quotes over the phone are frowned upon, the vehicle should physically presented.
Vehicle is inspected upon arrival inside, and out for damage etc, some shops (mostly dealerships video the car 100% before touching it.)
Vehicle is inspected overall for safety, no concealed firearms and obvious defects & noted.
Any firearms visually discovered must be removed by the owner no-one touches the car, nor firearms.
The same for drugs but nowadays depending upon the state ("weed is legal)
After inspection an estimate is presented to the customer.
Customer MUST sign the R/O estimate which lists the parts & labor content as seperate price tariffs, sales tax is either the actual tax levy or simply add "PlusTax" .
(Some states levy taxes on labour some do not. )
During the repair the defect details are recorded to the shop R/O files.
These days we use the techs' cell phone video to record the observations to records & customer file.
Any doubts about the repair or additional work needed has to be sent to the customer BEFORE work can continue by authorization.
Customer pays directly or by electronic methods. I /We use PayTrace .
Customer has 7 to 10 days to collect by law or face additional storage charges. (these are sometime discretionary )
Customer has the right to receive old parts back again including removed fluids/filter etc. (Tick R/O box on decline or not )
Tuercas Viejas
.
.
My immediate thoughts are the labour content, is cheap.
For info on this side a shop can only add 10% of the R/O value by consumer law since both customer & repair have entered into a simple contract.
The proceedure is as follows:-
Quotes over the phone are frowned upon, the vehicle should physically presented.
Vehicle is inspected upon arrival inside, and out for damage etc, some shops (mostly dealerships video the car 100% before touching it.)
Vehicle is inspected overall for safety, no concealed firearms and obvious defects & noted.
Any firearms visually discovered must be removed by the owner no-one touches the car, nor firearms.
The same for drugs but nowadays depending upon the state ("weed is legal)
After inspection an estimate is presented to the customer.
Customer MUST sign the R/O estimate which lists the parts & labor content as seperate price tariffs, sales tax is either the actual tax levy or simply add "PlusTax" .
(Some states levy taxes on labour some do not. )
During the repair the defect details are recorded to the shop R/O files.
These days we use the techs' cell phone video to record the observations to records & customer file.
Any doubts about the repair or additional work needed has to be sent to the customer BEFORE work can continue by authorization.
Customer pays directly or by electronic methods. I /We use PayTrace .
Customer has 7 to 10 days to collect by law or face additional storage charges. (these are sometime discretionary )
Customer has the right to receive old parts back again including removed fluids/filter etc. (Tick R/O box on decline or not )
Tuercas Viejas
.
.
MrGreedy
MB Enthusiast
Wacko74
Active Member
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2016
- Messages
- 143
- Car
- ML 300
I’ve booked my ML in with Mercland in a couple of weeks for the oil cooler seals
Just shy of £900 with a new cooler and probably thirty quids worth of cleaning products to get the oil slick off the drive
Just shy of £900 with a new cooler and probably thirty quids worth of cleaning products to get the oil slick off the drive
Tuercas viejas
MB Enthusiast
Bejezus that's cheap by US standards .
Judging by the pay compensation scales posted by Mr Geedy above the UK pay rates for mechanics & confirmed by this & others.
Average salary for UK car mechanics | InAutomotive Blog
Dirt cheap!
A 30,000 quid tops rate is my starting entry level compensation scales.
Most of my top techs earn double that!
I have three amongst ten, two Hispanics Mexico & San Salvador , plus my top guy & top earner/diagnostics a young American, all with ASC's and/or qualifications from top Mexican auto tech schools.
Based upon the data , UK pay scales are just above what someone working at McDonalds earns flipping hamburgers here in Denver .
For interest local MB dealers here in Denver have rates at $200 to 212/hr & on the east & wet coast like Boston /NYC/Miami & LA /SFO its 250/hr.
A wobbly kneed rate for Brits based upon what you folk post as estimates. .
No wonder you folks can afford to run MBs .
MB platform repair is my best product line earner Sprinters being the tops.
Followed by BMW & Landrover.
Cheers
Tuercas Viejas
MrGreedy
MB Enthusiast
Don't forget that the dollar is massively strong against the pound at the moment. I remember kicking back in New Orleans 'on a conference' with work in 2009. It was $2.10 to £1.00. It was like being a king.
The average (mean) salary in the UK is £38.6k and the average median salary is £31.5k.
I don't know what a decent mechanic does earn in the UK, but £30ish K is an 'average' salary (not using the mean, which is more distorted by Lord Cashwad on £1,000,0000,000 a year).
Earning an average salary, with an average house and average car sounds okay to me.
The average (mean) salary in the UK is £38.6k and the average median salary is £31.5k.
I don't know what a decent mechanic does earn in the UK, but £30ish K is an 'average' salary (not using the mean, which is more distorted by Lord Cashwad on £1,000,0000,000 a year).
Earning an average salary, with an average house and average car sounds okay to me.
I know there have been others that have mentioned the complexity of the job; but it is by no means a simple task. Will easily take 6-8hours to do; depending on if certain components (seized bolts) are stubborn and need to be removed. The oil cooler sits at the bottom of the 'V' of the engine; mercedes changed the seals from the original 'orange' type to supposedly a better 'purple' type however these never cured the problem permanently; we have had to replace vehicles with 'purple' seals. £800-£900 for this is a steal; especially if it includes a brand new oil cooler and not just the seal itself.
MrGreedy
MB Enthusiast
I had 2 quotes for this job from Merc independent specialists who do this all the time. One was 7-8 hours, the other was 9 hours (but this was for a slightly more involved job).
If I was doing this as a DIY and I wanted to clean everything properly (and I'm not limited by trying to make a profit), as no joke I would budget 4 days to also allow me to take my time, mark everything up, take loads of photos, keep referring to YouTube, get myself out of a pickle when things go wrong and be able to spend more time cleaning that a garage realistically can (no disrespect to the job garages do btw).
I think @R1ley might have smashed it recently for the first time in a weekend, possibly even a day, but that is super good going for a DIY.
If I was doing this as a DIY and I wanted to clean everything properly (and I'm not limited by trying to make a profit), as no joke I would budget 4 days to also allow me to take my time, mark everything up, take loads of photos, keep referring to YouTube, get myself out of a pickle when things go wrong and be able to spend more time cleaning that a garage realistically can (no disrespect to the job garages do btw).
I think @R1ley might have smashed it recently for the first time in a weekend, possibly even a day, but that is super good going for a DIY.
Tuercas viejas
MB Enthusiast
A couple of comments.
Leakage post repair
Some engines (CD-14) especailly made before 2007 do sometimes exhibit leakage from the block gallery plugs not tightened properly or sealed during production .
Hidden under the cooler (H/E) and exposed during removal, my shop house rules demand they are removed and resealed. Just for good measure.
If you observe the business side of the H/E , the two seal locations are marginal. It is very easy to misplace one during assembly and have a leak develop several thousand miles later ..
We use vaseline to stick the seals to the casing and it goes down onto the block without sliding, so we use two long studs as temporary guides enaged into the cooler retention holes
Turbo pedestal steel gaskets must be replaced with new to avoid any leakage since they too are subjected to gallery pressure & leakage confused as cooler leaks on a come back.
Just to reiterate for you folks on your side this is a dirt cheap job judging by the quotations posted.
Shop profits must be marginal, and pay scales meagre compared to what I need to do to attract & recruit the best Techs for work on premium product repair lines AND cover shop overheads & make profit selling auto service.
All my guy must be qualified , (Not YouTube Grads) and from recognized tech schools.
With student loans to pay of about $40,000 for say the advanced diagnostic Audi program or up to $60,000 for the HD diesel certification my pay scales must match their personal overheads.
I suppose in closing those tuition sums pale into insignificance when you compare Med School fees .
My eldest daugher is a pediatric surgeon, and although I did step up with the financial side for some of the cost, plus minoritiy /female grant discounts being a Venezuelan, her total student loan cost was just short of $350,000 studying at Georgetown U (BioMed studies) & UMTB in Galveston. Heaven knows what the full cost would have been without grants, ardous service to the poor on the border Hispanic towns and overseas doctoring work in Somalia, Kenya & Lethosoland.
If you want good sklled people you have to pay them even if they get their hands dirty !
You can't be just average & simply cruise to be the best.
Tuercas Viejas
Martyn_n
Active Member
Thanks for a great couple of tips; studs as temporary guides seems a particularly good idea to ensure the seals remain aligned.
As for the rest of the post, I really cannot comment. I guess the cost of living is generally higher over there and the salaries follow (or cause) this trend.
Thank you for the praise, it was a tough one to get done in a day and if I’m honest, I only managed it as I literally had no breaks to speak of. I think I had 1 coffee and a snack bar all day.
Tuercas viejas
MB Enthusiast
What kind of hours/pay on offer?Now you are talking like one or two of my techs
Wanna a job?
Tuercas Virejas
Jigglyjohnson
Active Member
I'm pretty sure the mb approved used warranty would cover the replacement of the oil cooler itself. !! So if I was the garage I'd be replacing the cooler itself it comes with the modified seals and then rules out both the seals and the cooler being warped. We have seen this before where the seals have been replaced and the actual cooler mating faces have warped and again caused a leak. So going forward if we identify a leak from the cooler then we always replace the cooler and haven't seen a vehicle return for a oil leak since. I'd perhaps go to another mb garage and get there opinion
