Opinions on a situation please?

[Tiff]

I work for an Independent all makes garage as a technician and MOT tester, and we seem to have had nothing but grief lately.. I've worked in the motor trade for nearly 18 years, but to be honest, I'm getting really fed up with the whole thing.

This issue started off with a car coming in, with a running fault, losing power and driveability issues.Another very experienced technician put the car on our Bosch KTS diagnostic machine,and after running a few checks,found that a sensor was faulty.The sensor was replaced with a genuine dealer part,and the fault was cured. Customer was charged for the labour and part,and all was well.

The car came back a few days later,and showed the same symptoms. It was checked again,and it was felt with the young age of the car,and the recurring fault,it was best for the customer to take it to the dealer to get it checked out on their dedicated diagnostic equipment. They spent quite a bit of time checking various systems,found the new sensor we had fitted to be faulty,and replaced it,along wth a bill of nearly £400.

The customer then came back to us demanding reimbursment of the near £400 that he paid the dealer. How would you guys look on this? We got the diagnosis correct,fitted the correct genuine part,repaired the fault then felt it was in the customers best interests to have a dedicated marque master technician check things to a greater degree than we could with our equipment.

We have found in the past that sometimes it is more cost effective for the customer,and better than us taking educated guesses,or even getting to the stage of substitution,for them just to take the car to the people who have all the bespoke equipment,and factory training. Indeed, sometimes there is no other option when re-coding etc is involved.

Just wanted views on how you would feel if you were in this situation, would you be demanding reimbursement,or if you'd feel let down by the dealer,or by the parts warranty,or the car maker in general.

The dealer has been of no help, "not our problem" they said, which is the same response we got from the parts retailer and the customer relations department of the manufacturer.

We have a unhappy customer, and are stuck between a rock and a hard place,so I'd appriciate comments on it!! Of course we could settle the bill, but should we?


This is one case,of quite a few lately in which we have felt like the bad guys,even though we have tried to do our best for our customers. We do get it wrong sometimes,but if this happens,we put our hands up and do our utmost to sort it out.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Based upon your description then it would appear that the owner is being unreasonable.

In the interests of a swift resolution, I would offer to refund the cost of labour and parts for the repair you did, and no more.

You ought to be able to get a credit from your supplier for the part (sensor) they provided, but you'd need to take a hit on the labour.

The refund on labour may be small beer to avoid an ongoing saga, and all the hassle that goes with it.

 

[LTD]

Why did you not suspect a faulty part and offer to replace it rather than send the car away ?

 

[ringway]

Based upon your description then it would appear that the owner is being unreasonable.

In the interests of a swift resolution, I would offer to refund the cost of labour and parts for the repair you did, and no more.

You ought to be able to get a credit from your supplier for the part (sensor) they provided, but you'd need to take a hit on the labour.

The refund on labour may be small beer to avoid an ongoing saga, and all the hassle that goes with it.

+1.

Your customer would have had to pay the £400 if they used the main dealer in any case.

So as BD says refund the labour and get the part credited from the supplier.

You should also explain to the customer you didn't manufacture the part and thus had no control over that side of things and that had the part been up to scratch they wouldn't have been paying £400 in the first place.

Best of luck.

 

[ringway]

Why did you not suspect a faulty part and offer to replace it rather than send the car away ?

Quote:
"The sensor was replaced with a genuine dealer part,and the fault was cured. Customer was charged for the labour and part,and all was well. "


Quite possibly the diagnostcs at the OP's garage missed the fault on the new part or maybe just bad luck.

I really feel for indys who are sometimes pi**ing in the wind if they can't invest fortunes in the latest kit and then keep it up to date.

 

[Gucci]

They spent quite a bit of time checking various systems,found the new sensor we had fitted to be faulty,and replaced it,along wth a bill of nearly £400.

The customer then came back to us demanding reimbursment of the near £400 that he paid the dealer.

I'd knock on your door too to be honest - you have acted professionally, however you recommended the customer go elsewhere to have the fault remedied. It's unfortunate that the new fault was due to a failed part fitted by yourselves. The customer has done as suggested and found the failed part you fitted was faulty at his expense.

Next stop: The manufacturer of that part - 2 failures - surely some reimbursement to you from them would be next?

 

[LTD]

Quite possibly the diagnostcs at the OP's garage missed the fault on the new part or maybe just bad luck.

Surely an identical result would suggest a faulty replacement ?

 

[ringway]

Surely an identical result would suggest a faulty replacement ?

Good point.

If diagnostics are not state of the art I think some indys may just throw in the towel on some issues especially if they have had problems with a certain make/model before, thus avoiding spending a lot of time for nothing trying to fix a problem they cannot accurately diagnose.

It would be interesting to find out the make/model of the car in question.

 

[Geezer255]

give them the money back u charged them just to shut them up, sometimes its just not worth the grief, but as for the money they were charged by the stealer tell um they would have had to pay that regardless if you had worked on it or not

 

[bpsorrel]

I agree with Geezer255. I think if I was the customer, that's probably what I'd be expecting, as I was trying to avoid the cost of the stealer by going to you originally but ended up having to go there anyway, on your recommendation. It may not directly be your fault, but sometimes it's better to just shake hands, pay up and walk away and I think this is one of those times...

 

[Tiff]

Thanks for the opinions guys, just wanted to see how others would see it.!

Our diagnostics system is pretty good, although only updated (at great expense) every 6 months, so may lag behind dealership equipment.

Contrary to popular belief, diagnostics equipment, however complex,isn't a guaranteed diagnosis and repair,mostly it only indicates,or guides you in a certain direction. An indicated sensor fault can be a wiring fault, or a symptom of another sensor fault somewhere else, this is down to the mechanic.

The sensor in question was tested (both the original and replacement) and gave identical readings with the ocilliscope and multimeter, which led us to believe the sensor was OK,and the fault lay elsewhere. I know faulty new parts do exsist, but it is very unusual, and to have exactly the same fault,this would lead you to believe the problem was somewhere else and that possibly the diagnostic machine was telling porkies.

To sum up:
Car came in with a fault.
Fault was diagnosed correctly.
Faulty part was replaced with OE new part
Fault cured.
Customer charged circa £140
Fault reappeared shortly after.
More tests done, car may possibly still be in warranty,customer advised to go to dealer.
Dealer spends many hours diagnosing identical fault
Come to identical conclusion.
Faulty part replaced.
Bill nearly £400.
Customer returns, demands nearly £400 from us.

Its still not been decided how we will deal with this, I reckon we will just pay up to the customer,and keep him as a customer,and to prevent getting a poor reputation.BUT as a technician, it really is disheartening to be wrong ALL the time in a customers eyes, even when you are right.I read a lot of posts on quite a few forums on bad garages,and poor service, but even when you try to do the best job you can,with the equipment made avaliable to you its never good enough.


P.s.

It was the camshaft sensor at fault. In many cases,both with this type of car, and a few others fitted with timing chains, it has been found that due to chain stretch, the diagnostic machine sees this as a cam sensor fault. We felt if this turned out to be the case,then the manufacturers warranty should deal with it.This was the decider in sending it to the dealer.

 

[ringway]

Give customer the £140 refund.

Customer has to pay the £400 main dealer costs - end of story.

 

[Sp!ke]

Wondering if it was same dealer selling you the faulty sensor?

 

[Tiff]

No, We use the trade parts outlet for the manufacturers parts. The dealer is in a completely different place.

 

[para alpha]

Yep, Offer the customer the refund for the work you did, If he doesn't like it, you know how the rest goes?

 

[grober]

In the interests of a swift resolution, I would offer to refund the cost of labour and parts for the repair you did, and no more.

.

I would agree with BD. In the interests of transparency I would try to explain to the customer in detail exactly what you did to reassure him you are not pulling a fast one. Show him your diagnostic equipment and in the process I would emphasise that you got the diagnosis correct but due to circumstances beyond your control the OE part failed. [That's if the customer is prepared to listen of course] Be sympathetic but firm offer a full refund for your work as a gesture of goodwill and leave it at that.

 

[Tiff]

You all seem to come to the same conclusion as me. I wasn't personally involved in all of this, but know that if I was,I'd feel exactly the same as the tech who did the work and have been in similar situations.I do lie awake at nights worrying and wondering if things should have been done differently,or if we had better diagnostics it would help, or more training,or marque specialisation... We both feel as if we are fighting with one arm tied behind our backs, and its getting worse,week by week, as newer and more complex cars drop out of the dealer system. I'm certainly looking to get out. I HATE modern cars...

 

[MD5]

I think you have summed it up there, Tiff, and I feel for you. Playing devil's advocate, manufacturers have been making their cars harder to work on for some time now, and a lack of faith or confidence generally in an indy's diagnostic equipment would perhaps suggest they shouldn't take on diagnostic jobs like this in the first place, especially if they trip over at the second hurdle (in this case, unfortunately, a faulty part), which could be perceived as washing their hands of the problem. That said, I've had main dealers try to cover every base in the likely event that they don't diagnose correctly the first time when they don't know where to start. They often also give the indies a bit of a slagging to put people off gong elsewhere, and then you have an irate customer coming back. There is nothingi worse than two outlets doing the same job for the same customer!

 

[jonnyboy]

As others have said, I would offer the labour back as a gesture of goodwill. If the customer gets ****y about it, you could respectfully point out that if part supplied by the manufacturer had been up to standard you wouldn't even be having this conversation.
No doubt he will have come back to you full of hell due to the comments the main dealer will have made about indi's.....

 

[lynall]

I certainly wouldnt give him the £400 as to be honest hes not going to use you again is he?

So £140 and swivel, these are hard times, to hard to give away £400.

Old saying as one door shuts another opens ie you will lose him but others will take his place.



Lynall