Our W210 E55 AMG Turbo

[CompR]

As title really. I'd do a proper build thread in the projects section, but for some reason I've not permission to do that according to the forum...

Without being able to do a build thread, I'll have to keep this brief, but we decided to build, just for fun, a W210 E55 AMG, but turbocharged, and with the turbo in the boot.

To most the idea sounds stupid, especially when you consider the turbo is far from small, 1000bhp+ capable in fact, but theory and reality are oh so different.

Still doing a little testing, and it's destroying driveshafts and CV joints at a rate of knots and currently only running 0.5bar, but it works very well...

First start...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=As8-xwYbbWc

First gentle drive...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MA-DiG6RgTE

Just checking operation of the VGT...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oggsEbyF3E4

Static idle and revving to 4k, to show how loud it is, or indeed isn't...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XldBudLAJH0

Then a bit of wheel slip on a private road (that's both wheels, the open diff is long gone)...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8QdPT87KF4

Will be some proper on road/track videos shortly if anyone cares, and it's a shame I can't start a project thread as will happily show what's been done and how if I could.

Cheers

 

[renault12ts]

No reason you can't do a project thread...just PM a mod.

 

[ChrisA]

would be very interesting thread, nice one

 

[C36fan]

As title really. I'd do a proper build thread in the projects section, but for some reason I've not permission to do that according to the forum... Without being able to do a build thread, I'll have to keep this brief, but we decided to build, just for fun, a W210 E55 AMG, but turbocharged, and with the turbo in the boot. To most the idea sounds stupid, especially when you consider the turbo is far from small, 1000bhp+ capable in fact, but theory and reality are oh so different. Still doing a little testing, and it's destroying driveshafts and CV joints at a rate of knots and currently only running 0.5bar, but it works very well... First start... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=As8-xwYbbWc First gentle drive... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MA-DiG6RgTE Just checking operation of the VGT... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oggsEbyF3E4 Static idle and revving to 4k, to show how loud it is, or indeed isn't... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XldBudLAJH0 Then a bit of wheel slip on a private road (that's both wheels, the open diff is long gone)... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8QdPT87KF4 Will be some proper on road/track videos shortly if anyone cares, and it's a shame I can't start a project thread as will happily show what's been done and how if I could. Cheers

very tasty!!

Sent from my iPhone using MBClub UK

 

[Lee C63]

Sounds insane and going to be an interesting read

 

[C36fan]

Get it reads for vmax!!

Sent from my iPhone using MBClub UK

 

[John Jones Jr]

Great stuff. Always been a fan of rear mounted turbos. Keep up the good work & the posts.

 

[CompR]

I've PM'd a mod regarding access to the Projects section, so with any luck I can do a proper build thread.

Get it reads for vmax!!

In all honesty, while it'd be perfectly possible to turn up the wick and make silly power, in a car the size/weight of a W210 I'd not want to even bother unless we were making well over 700bhp (I've personally tested many tuned cars at Brunters doing genuine, ie not clock speed, 200mph+, so this big old bus wouldn't impress me too much at that, it's purely for fun).
And for that kind of power, even if the stock internals could take it, I'd much prefer a complete re-work of the ECU and fuel system, which would bump the cost up significantly.

The setup is based a lot around what Kleemann did with the W210 supercharger conversions (well, from what vague info we found about them, and then using our own experience from there), after noticing them and thinking "They look fun, but they also look ridiculously overpriced" (Which is Merc tuning for you really), and we suspect we'd run out of fueling at a fairly similar power level to the Kleemann conversions (well, hopefully a little more due to more compressor efficiency and less parasitic losses, but we will see, currently running very low boost).

To be honest, the car was built purely as a bit of fun, and to be a rolling advert for the company (We sell performance turbochargers, rather than build/tune cars, despite the ability to do so, we just do that for fun) once it's done, so it's highly unlikely to be any kind of power/performance benchmark.

Power for your pound, maybe it is though. I think so far, bearing in mind no labour costs as it's all done in-house, and we already had the turbo (we have hundreds lol), the conversion (using all new parts, and proper stuff too) has cost under £2000 I think?

We seem to be smashing driveshafts and CVs incredibly easily though.

Is this something all the supercharged E55s suffer with? And if so, what can be done? Is a W211 E55 AMG rear end any different/stronger?

 

[John Jones Jr]

We seem to be smashing driveshafts and CVs incredibly easily though.

Would age/miles not have a bearing on them breaking up? Maybe a new pair might hold up?

 

[CompR]

Would age/miles not have a bearing on them breaking up? Maybe a new pair might hold up?

In all honesty, from experience on other cars at least, I doubt it. Dread to think of the cost to see if that's correct too!

CVs can certainly wear, but these are going from great to boom just like that. Literally explode from the inside, the bearings coming out of them like a shotgun blast. Shafts and diffs I'm used to exploding, but CVs are fairly new one for me lol.

And the shafts, well, they have very little in the way of wear, as they've no moving or jointed components, simply solid (albeit hollow on these cars!?) shafts of metal.

 

[John Jones Jr]

In all honesty, from experience on other cars at least, I doubt it. Dread to think of the cost to see if that's correct too!

CVs can certainly wear, but these are going from great to boom just like that. Literally explode from the inside, the bearings coming out of them like a shotgun blast. Shafts and diffs I'm used to exploding, but CVs are fairly new one for me lol.

And the shafts, well, they have very little in the way of wear, as they've no moving or jointed components, simply solid (albeit hollow on these cars!?) shafts of metal.

Ah, fair enough. Expensive custom d/shafts might be the only cure due to all that torque? Maybe have a look at U.S. suppliers, should be more demand over there for one off heavy duty props & d/shafts.

The only reason I suggested trying new one's was simply I experienced two broken drive shafts on two different high mileage older Merc's, both failed, seemed to be fatigue rather than abuse, then again it was the shaft that when on both occasions rather than the C.V.'s

Anyway, keep up the posts.

 

[CompR]

Yeah, the first shaft we hoped was just high miles and wear, but the replacement was pretty fresh (as used parts go), and the CV on that one exploded, lol.

I've not really heard stories of driveshaft reliability issues on Kleemann converted cars etc, but firm info full stop isn't that easy to get.

I'm hoping we've just been unlucky so far with shafts etc.

 

[andy27168]

What have you done to the diff? as you mentioned the open diff is long gone, so I,m assuming you have replaced/locked it somehow.
Kleeman leave the standard diff or the owner fits a LSD diff.
If you have indeed locked it then the drive shafts would probably snap with the output from the standard engine let alone with the additional output from the now blown engine.

 

[CompR]

If you have indeed locked it then the drive shafts would probably snap with the output from the standard engine let alone with the additional output from the now blown engine.

With that reasoning, a Quaife ATB, or any LSD that puts power to both wheels would snap shafts, and they don't.

 

[RBYCC]

Yeah, the first shaft we hoped was just high miles and wear, but the replacement was pretty fresh (as used parts go), and the CV on that one exploded, lol.

I've not really heard stories of driveshaft reliability issues on Kleemann converted cars etc, but firm info full stop isn't that easy to get.

I'm hoping we've just been unlucky so far with shafts etc.

With the time,effort and cost that you are putting into the build, why fiddle with any used part especially in the areas of power transmission....

Ed A.

 

[CompR]

With the time,effort and cost that you are putting into the build, why fiddle with any used part especially in the areas of power transmission....

Ed A.

So far it's cost under £2000 all-in, using all-new parts barring the replacement shafts etc.

Kleemann charge over £7000 (plus fitting etc) for their kit, so personally Id say we're not putting in much cost at all.

How much are new shafts? Knowing Mercedes I'd guess around 10 times then price of used ones.

In all honesty though, from experience with other cars, new or used, if you're breaking shafts, you're breaking shafts, regardless of age.

 

[John Jones Jr]

CompR, would you consider (if practical with that large turbo) moving it under the floor?

 

[nb_racing]

Was this the car taht was for sale a while back that had AMG turned into WAG on the boot lid?

What management are you running?
Have you got an intercooler? Would be interesed to see some of the pipe work.

 

[CompR]

CompR, would you consider (if practical with that large turbo) moving it under the floor?

Yeah, you could do that, most people do that in fact, and there's no reason the turbo has to be this large, if anything this was done to prove a few points and to test the VGT setup.
Most people fit them under the car, though the dirt/wet/etc was a big reason we're not huge fans of it, and when certain things could only realistically go in the boot, there was no advantage to us.
A lot of people think/expect (and are happy to go on big internet rants about it, despite no prior experience of it) the boot to get incredibly hot due to the turbo, but no, far from it. Literally a fraction of the temp of normal enginebay temps, and barely above ambient to be honest apart from freezing cold days. With sufficient heat wrapping/shielding, and plus the fact air is ingested by the engine (even off boost) so fast it doesn't have time to get hot, means it's not an issue.

Was this the car taht was for sale a while back that had AMG turned into WAG on the boot lid?

What management are you running?
Have you got an intercooler? Would be interesed to see some of the pipe work.

Yeah, the very same car. Not a fan of the paint (it's done badly too- We'd prefer a plain silver car like the other 2 AMGs we have), but was very mechanically sound, with fresh uprated shocks and sprints, and solid underneath (needed no more than a couple of bulbs to pass the MOT) so ideal for this.

Stock, albeit modified, management. That's the limiting factor to be fair, but AFRs are great, Mid 14s as you'd expect at idle and cruise, and nice safe 11s and 12s on boost.

A large (overkill really) chargecooler is mounted in the boot along with electric water pump, front mounted radiator for the chargecooler, and pipework, well that took some thinking, but it works well!

I'd start a build thread showing how it's all done, but the two admin who I've PM'd regarding access to the Projects forum haven't replied.

 

[stevehg]

It's funny that there is no twist in the splines, just a shear. You would normally expect them to twist quite a bit before going. Are the main drive shafts ever going or is it always the stub shafts and/or the cv joint housing?

Are you operating the CV's at a greater angle than normal? Have you altered the suspension a lot, for example? This may be the cause of why you are seeing breakages of CV's and others have not. Probably the only way to cure it, is to have some CV's made with a thicker bell housing and small bearings, or see if you can source a compatible hub assembly that uses uprated CV's. Either way it's not going to be easy.