Our W210 E55 AMG Turbo

[RBYCC]

So far it's cost under £2000 all-in, using all-new parts barring the replacement shafts etc.

Kleemann charge over £7000 (plus fitting etc) for their kit, so personally Id say we're not putting in much cost at all.

How much are new shafts? Knowing Mercedes I'd guess around 10 times then price of used ones.

In all honesty though, from experience with other cars, new or used, if you're breaking shafts, you're breaking shafts, regardless of age.

Call me old fashioned but I prefer to build for not only reliability but safety.

 

[CompR]

Are you operating the CV's at a greater angle than normal? Have you altered the suspension a lot, for example?

No, just an off the shelf Bilstein kit, not even coilovers, just shocks and springs, though due to the torque it does squat a lot compared to when N/A. Got a few ideas on how to fix the issue, but it's not a huge one- Better than diffs or transmissions blowing at least!

Call me old fashioned but I prefer to build for not only reliability but safety.

And brand new stock ones like you suggested would almost deffo not significantly stronger, so not any safer?

And when they go, we just end up with 1 wheel drive, gentle drive back to the workshop, doesn't make the car swerve etc, so call me old fashioned, but that seems safe

 

[Eddie01]

If you're having that many problems with the shafts count yourself lucky as the box could be suffering and that will be a price that that will scare you.

 

[John Jones Jr]

A large (overkill really) chargecooler is mounted in the boot along with electric water pump, front mounted radiator for the chargecooler, and pipework, well that took some thinking, but it works well!

Do you actually need a charge cooler, would the long pipework from the turbo to the inlet manifold running under the floor not act as a reasonable cooler, or are the power gains so much greater that it makes little sense not to install the charge cooler?

 

[RBYCC]

No, just an off the shelf Bilstein kit, not even coilovers, just shocks and springs, though due to the torque it does squat a lot compared to when N/A. Got a few ideas on how to fix the issue, but it's not a huge one- Better than diffs or transmissions blowing at least!

And brand new stock ones like you suggested would almost deffo not significantly stronger, so not any safer?

And when they go, we just end up with 1 wheel drive, gentle drive back to the workshop, doesn't make the car swerve etc, so call me old fashioned, but that seems safe

You are so very right, a used part that tends to suffer from metal fatigue is just as strong as a new stock part.

Keep up the good work ....

 

[CompR]

Do you actually need a charge cooler, would the long pipework from the turbo to the inlet manifold running under the floor not act as a reasonable cooler, or are the power gains so much greater that it makes little sense not to install the charge cooler?

The thing about rear mounts not 'needing' an intercooler/chargecooler is a myth really. Well, not a myth, just a misunderstanding. Low boost levels, regardless of position of turbo, gets away without intercoolers. Temps may be fairly high, but the mix of low pressures and not insane temps means you get away with it from a reliability point of view.

In reality, actual compressor outlet temps, and temp drop from comp outlet to engine inlet, aren't hugely different to a front mount. While of course they are a little lower, it's not much; pipework can be long as hell and it doesn't work as well as even a fairly poor intercooler.

So for the sake of maximum efficiency and performance, we're running one, especially as we may be able to crank the boost up to levels it's worthwhile (only 0.5bar at the moment as only just got it driving). Aside from cost, which isn't huge, there's no real disadvantage to run one.

If you're having that many problems with the shafts count yourself lucky as the box could be suffering and that will be a price that that will scare you.

Indeed, fixing weak points of cars just moves the stress the next weakest part- Tyre grip adds shaft stress, if shafts cope, diff has a lot to cope with, if diff copes, gearbox is next, and so on.
The same reason head gaskets tend to be designed as the weakest parts on most parts- If you have a bulletproof head gasket, you're fixing melted pistons etc instead...

a used part that tends to suffer from metal fatigue is just as strong as a new stock part.

As much as you're trying to be clever with sarcastic comments on the internet, I know from decades of experience of messing around with cars far too powerful for their own good, that if you're breaking shafts fairly easily, new stock ones aren't magically lots stronger, so it will be a false economy, a waste of time.
If anyone is daft enough to donate some brand new ones, I'm fairly confident I could wreck them no problems to prove a point lol.

Thanks for the input regardless though.

 

[Auto-mobile]

I like this, I think I spotted on a skyline forum first? Aftermarket Ecu would be the way forward so you have more control over boost levels and when it comes on full boost? I'd imagine that's what's doing the shafts in, I know of several 500hp+ w210 55's over the years that have been fine but they where supercharged so completely different delivery of power.

Failing that mechanic sympathy goes a long way, I've seen your videos

 

[CompR]

I like this, I think I spotted on a skyline forum first? Aftermarket Ecu would be the way forward so you have more control over boost levels and when it comes on full boost? I'd imagine that's what's doing the shafts in, I know of several 500hp+ w210 55's over the years that have been fine but they where supercharged so completely different delivery of power.

Failing that mechanic sympathy goes a long way, I've seen your videos

Unless someone else posted it on a Skyline forum, as I haven't owned a Skyline or been on one of the forums for over a year now.

TBH I want to keep the true 'AMG' thing of too much power and too little traction, that's what's so good about AMGs, so slowing the boost hit isn't what I'd want to be honest.

An aftermarket ECU I'd want for better control over the fuel and ign for high boost levels, boost isn't so much of a problem. One day maybe, but baby steps at the moment to see where the issues lie!

Mechanical sympathy though, no, never, lol.

 

[John Jones Jr]

Failing that mechanic sympathy goes a long way, I've seen your videos

Ha, the cat's out of the bag!

 

[John Jones Jr]

The thing about rear mounts not 'needing' an intercooler/chargecooler is a myth really. Well, not a myth, just a misunderstanding. Low boost levels, regardless of position of turbo, gets away without intercoolers. Temps may be fairly high, but the mix of low pressures and not insane temps means you get away with it from a reliability point of view.

In reality, actual compressor outlet temps, and temp drop from comp outlet to engine inlet, aren't hugely different to a front mount. While of course they are a little lower, it's not much; pipework can be long as hell and it doesn't work as well as even a fairly poor intercooler.

So for the sake of maximum efficiency and performance, we're running one, especially as we may be able to crank the boost up to levels it's worthwhile (only 0.5bar at the moment as only just got it driving). Aside from cost, which isn't huge, there's no real disadvantage to run one.

O.k., got ya.

 

[RBYCC]

As much as you're trying to be clever with sarcastic comments on the internet, I know from decades of experience of messing around with cars far too powerful for their own good, that if you're breaking shafts fairly easily, new stock ones aren't magically lots stronger, so it will be a false economy, a waste of time.
If anyone is daft enough to donate some brand new ones, I'm fairly confident I could wreck them no problems to prove a point lol.

Thanks for the input regardless though.

Far from being a sarcastic, and no need to be clever but my five decades of experience with high horsepower and even higher torque competitive drag and street cars going back to a factory lightweight Max performance hemi in the late 60s tells me that if you constantly break the same part then there is something seriously wrong with your build.
Just trying to share some knowledge and experience.

There are many Merc builds in the USA similar to yours with higher power output that don't break.

We agree to disagree but to go fast and remain competitive be it in sanctioned time events or heads up street pink slip racing you can't afford to constantly break stuff.

Cheers, Ed A.

 

[John Jones Jr]

...there is something seriously wrong with your build.

Take it easy there Ed, it's only a two grand build (for something a little different from the norm too) as the Op already explained and no biggy if he breaks something. Imo, he should be applauded for just having a go at it.

 

[CompR]

if you constantly break the same part then there is something seriously wrong with your build.

Well of course. But you think fitting brand new stock shafts will change that? In my experience, and I expect yours too, the answer is no, not really.

Uprated ones would normally be the answer, but this isn't some big money build, this is just a bit of fun, though we'd hoped they'd hold up better.

One thing is for sure, the shafts are pretty puny, and hollow, considering even the standard power output.

We've made a few changes, including a line lock so no pressure to the rear brakes if/when brake boosting, as that's the only time undue strain should be on the parts, so we will see.

 

[brucemillar]

I have a set of CLS55 AMG shafts going.

 

[Auto-mobile]

Unless someone else posted it on a Skyline forum, as I haven't owned a Skyline or been on one of the forums for over a year now.

TBH I want to keep the true 'AMG' thing of too much power and too little traction, that's what's so good about AMGs, so slowing the boost hit isn't what I'd want to be honest.

An aftermarket ECU I'd want for better control over the fuel and ign for high boost levels, boost isn't so much of a problem. One day maybe, but baby steps at the moment to see where the issues lie!

Mechanical sympathy though, no, never, lol.

More control over the boost is really to stop the shafts spilling there guts everywhere, if there getting a massive torque hit before the cars moving I'm not surprised you keep killing driveshafts, an after market Ecu will be able to control the the boost based on throttle position so once you have moved off you can floor it.

Or try and get hold of a lsd which will completely change the car.

I'm aware neither are cheap though.

 

[CompR]

I have a set of CLS55 AMG shafts going.

Do they fit? Are they stronger? If yes to both, I'm 100% interested.

More control over the boost is really to stop the shafts spilling there guts everywhere, if there getting a massive torque hit before the cars moving I'm not surprised you keep killing driveshafts, an after market Ecu will be able to control the the boost based on throttle position so once you have moved off you can floor it.

Or try and get hold of a lsd which will completely change the car.

Boost is always dependent on throttle position, that's just turbochargers/physics.
Boost by gear/rpm can be done with an aftermarket ECU, but not something we'd want, as taming power delivery just isn't AMG style really, and isn't much fun either.
TBH it's not that anyhow, as tyre grip is the weak point, the boost hit just spins the wheels, that's never when the shafts seem to give up.

Only thing I'd want to do to make the shafts last is fit stronger ones, calming the car down isn't for me.

Only diff I've seen for Mercs is the Quaife ATB, which personally I'm not a fan off. I have proper plated LSDs in other cars I own, but I'm more than happy with it fully locked like it is at the moment. Open like they are standard is the only thing that lets AMGs down.

 

[brucemillar]

They didn't fit the diff splines on my C55. Hence why I ended up with them. I will try and get part numbers off them and you can check.

Sent from my iPhone using MBClub UK

 

[CompR]

They didn't fit the diff splines on my C55. Hence why I ended up with them. I will try and get part numbers off them and you can check.

Sent from my iPhone using MBClub UK

The W210 E55 one is 25 spline, I know a lot of other Merc ones are 27 spline.

If you can count them, that'd be handy, as correct spline should be good enough to say they'll fit going by all the Merc ones we've looked at so far.

 

[brucemillar]

OK

These are 27 spline. That is by marking one and counting around. When they went into my diff they were too small so didn't catch the diff teeth. They cost my £600 for the pair and I want them gone. SO will take silly offers.

 

[CompR]

Ouch. At £600 I'd be getting some custom made bulletproof ones made.

Luckily stock E55 AMG 25 spline ones are only ~£40 used.