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Prius Problems plus Toyota Sales Slump



I may be way off here but I think the sums are roughly.

Internal combustion engines are only 20-30% efficient in converting chemical energy in to mechanical energy. 0% efficient when waiting at the traffic lights.

Electric motors are 80% efficient. So charging batteries with an ICE is not ideal, but at least you do not waste energy when stationary or slowing down.

So why hybrid? Despite most journeys being short people still want the capability of driving longer distances, so an in ICE is needed.

I’m sure there is a future for electric vehicles and the Prius is a necessary first step, but it’s time to quickly move on..

Yeah but ...

With a hybrid you still have the same IC engine efficiency (the output mechanical energy now being used to turn a generator, rather than a gearbox). On top of that you have the fact that the generator isn't anywhere near 100% efficient, nor is the battery charging process (from memory you have to put in 10-15% more than you get out again). And then you've got the losses in the electric motors themselves.

Cumulatively, I'd be willing to bet that lot is a bigger loss than a modern gearbox between the same engine and wheels. As mentioned, the car would be a lot lighter too without the banks of batteries, which would further help.

Now regenerative braking may help a bit, but I suspect it's not particularly efficient (it's going to be subject to the same generator and charge process losses mentioned above, at the very least). And obviously usage and driving style comes in to it hugely. On a long motorway run you have zero regenerative braking.

Remember the Prius recording worse MPG than a BMW M3 when both were driven in formation for 10? laps round a track.
 
The Prius starts to make financial sense if you are company car driver travelling regularly into the CC zone and spending time in slow moving traffic.

I drove one a couple of years ago and it was quite cool at low speeds when the engine wasn't running. Sounded like a milk float.

The emmissions are so low it's got free road tax.

It's free for the CC zone.

And because company car tax is based on C02, and it's petrol (diesel has a 3% surcharge), its in the lowest band.

Thing is, it's expensive to buy and not very nice.

HD
Yes, agree with all that.
 
Remember the Prius recording worse MPG than a BMW M3 when both were driven in formation for 10? laps round a track.

Try the prius in town vs an M3. Think which would use more fuel.

A more interesting comparison is whether a TDi Golf in town had worse MPG than the pious....

Even if it were marginal, the recycling costs would add up against the hybrid.
 
Its a "qualified" Commercial Success Story

OK so people buy the Prius to make a statement about themselves being environmentally friendly. :p Other people buy large 4X4 vehicles without the slightest intention of ever using them off road.:o Some people have large prestigious saloons with blacked out rear windows while labouring under the delusion that passers by would have the slightest interest in who is sitting in the rear seat. :doh: It's all to do with using an image to sell people cars. Purchasers will then justify their purchase by buying into the "lifestyle image" the car projects. :cool: I suppose the validity of any design is how close it gets to delivering the promise of its design. Judged on that basis the Prius is probably a "qualified commercial success" no better or worse than many other cars.:dk:
 
Don't get me started on Priuses......

Though it'd be good to fit a Lexus V8 engine and running gear.
 
My peer at work has a prius hybrid as a company car, and initially his comments were similar to those in this thread but he pays f*ck all tax per year and he also gets over 60mpg in ANY condition.

I think he comes off as a winner.

My wife has a Prius as a co car, her company has a strange scheme where the car is bought in the employees name and then the employee pays for private mileage, currently 7p per mile but does not pay co car tax.

Whilst I accept that it is not a drivers car, it does make sense if you are a co car driver and want a quiet & spacious automatic car and dont want to pay much tax. As a second car it makes a lot of sense to us.

I will get back in my box and let the Prius bashing continue...
 
Peugeot are already working out how to call back all the Toyota based product in their line-up (107, Crosser, C1 etc)

By all accounts Toyota will be spending £1.5b on workshop time alone...

The ccrosser and Peugeot 4007 is built by Mitsubishi not Toyota it's basically an outlander.
 
Just goes to prove my thoughts that "The car in front behaving erraticly is a toyota" quite a few of the ones i see driving around in croyden seem to have had the accelerator disconected and the brakes made very "twitchy" ( i suppose it's the problems of working for a large , well insured and disliked company who's vans have logo's on or driving a big obviously well looked after mercedes ) .
 
I have a mate who works at Toyota HQ in Epsom, and apparently Lexus sales are poor at the moment. No diesels (to speak of) and because sales are so low the dealers all want to jump ship -they are having difficulty persuading them to stay!

Have you seem Mercedes UK January registration figures? Horrible. Down 50% from last Jan.
BMW was terrible too, although Audi was well up.
 
I agree with that. My biggest client has two Lexus dealerships and they are currently trying to end their contract and take on another franchise.

I guess anything VAG right now is a good bet as a dealer - but I wonder when their bubble will burst?
 
If it happens to any car, what will you do at least to stay alive?

I will switch off the ignition to position II and it still steerable and let the hell the engine revs full throttle, is better than to die in the incident yelling help.:thumb:
 
Toyota had a full-page apology re. the accelerator problem in today's paper.

A few pages away there's the story that they've issued a recall for 270,000 Prius in the US and Japan re. the brake 'delay' issue. There's apparently a class legal action starting in the US.
 
Have you seem Mercedes UK January registration figures? Horrible. Down 50% from last Jan.
BMW was terrible too, although Audi was well up.

Would have thought that all manufacturers are showing poor Jan sales as many rushed sales through in Dec to save 2.5% vat.

For me a Prius driver is a Pious driver......poor quality batteries - Li-on makes more sense just too expensive - maybe the chargeable at home version that has this type of batteries may make more sense.

Doesn't Honda run the FCX in California on Liquid Hydrogen? James May test drove it for top gear - now that is the future.....IMHO
 
Gotta love the reporting on the BBC - interviews an Auris driver who claimed "My car went off like a formula one car, but in reverse".

Stuff AMG, I'm getting an Auris and I'll see you down the Pod...

As for the brakes on the hybrids, they feel no more odd than the SBC brakes ona merc, drive by wire is always going to feel odd until it's the norm.
 
toyotat.gif
 
I was going to post something along the "car in front is a Toyota" lines yesterday, but was thinking I can't have been the first person to think of it.

With a sticky throttle and no brakes - I definitely don't want any Toyotas behind me.
 
Would have thought that all manufacturers are showing poor Jan sales as many rushed sales through in Dec to save 2.5% vat.

.

http://lib.smmt.co.uk/articles/news/...ase%20web3.zip
According to the SMMT figures Mercedes sales are up for January 2010 compared with January 2009 by an impressive 29.9% very much in line with the overall market which was up 29.8% compared with January 2009. And their market share stayed almost constant (up a tad).
 

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