Rear End Question/Help

[brucemillar]

Folks.

On my W203 C55 estate the rear wheels are not central on the car. This is evident as the rear N/S sits inside the arch 10mm more than the rear O/S. This is visibly noticeable when looking at the car. I also have a C240 estate and it does not have this issue.

To date I have had the following done with no change.

Full geometry check at WIM

New rear subframe and suspension arms. While the subframe was off the car was checked for any signs of damage on the mounting points or floor pan (no damage found)

Full geometry check (2nd time) with new sub-frame.
Chassis alignment check.

If you measure from the top of the inside wheel rim to the shock the gap is 10mm less on the N/S than it is on the O/S. This says to me that the subframe needs to move over towards the N/S as that would push that wheel away from the shock. However there is no adjustment in the subframe that allows this.

The bodywork appears to be true with no bad panel gaps or creases.

Any clues?

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Has it ever been involved in a rear end shunt do you know?

 

[brucemillar]

Has it ever been involved in a rear end shunt do you know?

I do not know that. It is HPI clear. But that does not mean too much. However the chassis and the geometry check out 100%.

I do not think it is the body due the difference in measurements between the top of the wheel rims to the shocks. Also measuring in from a straight edge from the arch to the wheel. It just looks like the subframe is mounted off center. So how come the geometry and chassis checks out OK..

 

[V12]

Have seen plenty of cars with odd wheels on. In some styles, mercedes do different offsets, so the face of the wheel looks identical, but they sit differently.

Have also seen cars with the pair of wider rears on the passenger side and the pair of thinner fronts on the drivers side...Could be a mix of front/rears.

 

[brucemillar]

Have seen plenty of cars with odd wheels on. In some styles, mercedes do different offsets, so the face of the wheel looks identical, but they sit differently.

Have also seen cars with the pair of wider rears on the passenger side and the pair of thinner fronts on the drivers side...Could be a mix of front/rears.

The wheel off-set(s) have been checked by the stamped numbers, measuring and swapping wheels left to right etc.

You are correct though. It does look like an incorrect off-set. We even swapped hub-carriers just to be 100% sure.

 

[andy27168]

How sure are you of the geometry? If I,m reading this correctly the gap between the wheel and the shock I thought would be adjustable as one of you suspension arms I believe is adjustable and could pull the hub either in or out changing this gap.
Just a thought.

 

[V12]

Photos please...preferably up on a ramp. Or a left / right wheel arch comparison shot.
Very unusual fault and one that i've not come across apart from incorrect wheels having been fitted.

Andy, he says WIM did it, so not the usual cowboys...

 

[brucemillar]

Guys

Both WIM and now another alignment company have done the geometry both with the same results - i.e. well within tolerance. Another member on here did post that he had the same issue, resolved by replacing the subframe. So that is what I had done. When the frame was off, I, and the garage checked the floor pan for any signs of damage. There is no creasing, welding, scraping just a nice clean floor pan. All the mounting points are as they should be with no signs of movement or welding. The new subframe went straight on with no issues. I am not sure that the arms are adjustable certainly not for camber. It is a very small amount. But when you see it it sticks and then you really notice it and I know it is not correct.

FYI: Garage are now about to fit new bottom arms as that is all that is left that has not been changed. Next suggestion is that we get a pry bar in and try and push the subframe over. I am worried that it would simplu move back again as it only sits on four pins.

 

[brucemillar]

OK. So assuming we have all new arms and subframe. The arms are not adjustable.

The only thing that controls the gap between the wheel rim and the shock is:

1) Wheel off-set.

2) Sub-frame position.

3) Hub-carrier.

We know both hub carriers are identical.

All arms have been replaced. So has the sub-frame.

So either the floor is bent or the frame is mounted incorrectly. The cars geometry is fine. Would geometry show a bent floor?

I am stumped by this.

 

[Dieselman]

It sounds like the inner wheel arch and outer wing are not set correctly.

 

[brucemillar]

It sounds like the inner wheel arch and outer wing are not set correctly.

How would that be set? Is it something that can be fixed?

 

[brucemillar]

To be 100% clear. What It looks like is that the N/S wheel has moved into the arch pushing the O/S wheel out of the arch by about 1" across the width of the car.

Or:

As you look at the car from the rear. The N/S wheel sits inside the arch and O/S wheel sticks out of it's arch.

I noticed on another forum somebody complaining of the same issue. He loosened the sub frame, put the car on the floor and heaved the body over until it looked central. He then lifted the car and tightened the sub-frame. I am not sure that I will get .5 inch movement and if it will stay in place if I try and either pry it or manhandle it.

 

[Igurisu]

Just trying to apply logic, if the wheel alignment, hubs. subframe and chassis are all correct in relation to each other then surely it must be the body/wheel wheel arch fixing/mounting to the chassis?

Can you take any measurements from chassis legs to wheel arch or wings?