Rover . . .

[mark.t]

Is It Over For Rover

They produce poor quality goods at top prices the badge has had its day......good luck to the employees

 

[sportyreptile]

I personally feel that the SD was the death knell of Rover. The V8 was a nice engine but boy was it thirsty.


John

I bought a SD1 rust bucket for the engine, box and back axle as a donor for the TR7V8 I built.

Sold the interior including the fancy dashboard to finance the much needed brake and suspension upgrades.Scrapped the shell. The V8 certainly was a thursty beast, I used to get 12mpg when thrashing it hard. Was a lot of fun though

I agree that Rover should specialise, two seater sports cars perhaps.

 

[glojo]

The V8 certainly was a thursty beast, I used to get 12mpg when thrashing it hard. Was a lot of fun though

My boss was quite shocked when I explained that there were times when I was averaging 10mpg when 'needs must'. He appreciated my conservative efforts when we used to get 12 -14mpg That engine certainly did sound nice though.

I think the 'burbling' noise was the fuel leaving the tank

John

 

[sportyreptile]

The attendant at the petrol station station used to say "switch the engine off sonny, I can't keep up"

Yeah the noise was fantastic, I had the bottom end lightened and balanced with a lightened flywheel, the noise through the 3" exhaust was vicious - lurvely jubbley. I actually quite miss that car now I think about it although it tried it's best to bankrupt/kill me

 

[Dieselman]

I think that it's a bit sad that Rover might go to the wall. Not because I'm all nostalgic about an ailing british car company but because they have genuinely got some good ideas.

They purchased DeTomasa for the carbon fire GT, and genuenly want to go down the sports/niche car route, but feel trapped as their customer base is generally older and prefers the more staid vehicles.
The GT is four times stiffer than a TVR and will eat it for breakfast but who has seen one on the road?

They can develop their own engines now as they have an in-house engine shop and have been back in touring car racing.

Also there is the issue that Britain is now dangerously close to having no manufacturing industry. So what I hear you say!!

Well the problem is if we don't make anything we cant export anything so don't bring in cash from abroad. This will be a major problem soon.
Ok we can all work in call centres but A: that doesn't bring in revenue from abroad and B: call centres can be moved to India or other cheaper countries.

All countries need foreign revenue and we're just not getting enough to keep the ballance of payments equal.

 

[glojo]

They purchased DeTomasa for the carbon fire GT, and genuenly want to go down the sports/niche car route, but feel trapped as their customer base is generally older and prefers the more staid vehicles.
The GT is four times stiffer than a TVR and will eat it for breakfast but who has seen one on the road?

They can develop their own engines now as they have an in-house engine shop and have been back in touring car racing.

Hi Dieselman,
The problem with being a specialist sports car manufacturer is 'numbers'. I cannot see anyway that a manufacturer can sell purely specialist sports cars with their very own engine and keep the employee base and site that they now possess.

Rover died many, many years ago, it simply does not lie down. I totally, totally accept your point about industry and having an export market. Sadly though the horses left the stable way back in the late 60's early 70's when we had thriving coal mines, docks, MOTOR-CYCLE industry and of course steel and car manufacturing.

With my inward looking blinkered interpretation of where we went wrong, I blame the trade unions!!!! This is my very own personal opinion and I throw it into the pot in the hope of further good debate. Trade unions to me are responsible for the welfare of their members. This obviously includes pay, but when you strangle the industry that you work for, then to me the union has failed to look after the very members that pay their union dues.

Rover is really British Leyland, but that name was ruined for all the above reasons, Rover should have gone for a popular high selling part of the market and built an attractive, competitive car, be it aimed at the A, C or E-class market. Just concentrate on the one, BUT... that is too late. Our once proud country cannot maintain its standard of living without exporting, at present we have more coal reserves than OIL, yet the coal remains untouched!!!! Madness, or what?

Good morning everyone,
from beautiful sunny Torquay
John

 

[tim.100]

Our once proud country cannot maintain its standard of living without exporting, at present we have more coal reserves than OIL, yet the coal remains untouched!!!! Madness, or what?

Good morning everyone,
from beautiful sunny Torquay
John

It is illegal for me to burn UK house coal at home, unless it is the low-calorie, imported smokeless coal. Cars also are penalised in the name of the green movement.

This is not the law of unintended consequences; the closure of imanufacturing industry and Rover is quite foreseeable with the mindset of national and local government, and its hordes of 'regulators.'

 

[Thmsshaun]

Hi Dieselman,
The problem with being a specialist sports car manufacturer is 'numbers'. I cannot see anyway that a manufacturer can sell purely specialist sports cars with their very own engine and keep the employee base and site that they now possess.

Rover died many, many years ago, it simply does not lie down. I totally, totally accept your point about industry and having an export market. Sadly though the horses left the stable way back in the late 60's early 70's when we had thriving coal mines, docks, MOTOR-CYCLE industry and of course steel and car manufacturing.

With my inward looking blinkered interpretation of where we went wrong, I blame the trade unions!!!! This is my very own personal opinion and I throw it into the pot in the hope of further good debate. Trade unions to me are responsible for the welfare of their members. This obviously includes pay, but when you strangle the industry that you work for, then to me the union has failed to look after the very members that pay their union dues.

Rover is really British Leyland, but that name was ruined for all the above reasons, Rover should have gone for a popular high selling part of the market and built an attractive, competitive car, be it aimed at the A, C or E-class market. Just concentrate on the one, BUT... that is too late. Our once proud country cannot maintain its standard of living without exporting, at present we have more coal reserves than OIL, yet the coal remains untouched!!!! Madness, or what?

Good morning everyone,
from beautiful sunny Torquay
John

There is no debate there. Couldnt agree more. Trade unions look after themselves!

 

[Ian B Walker]

Imagine the w202 still being produced now!

Wish the W124's were.

 

[Shude]

Wish the W124's were.

In a way the W124 lives on under the bodywork of a Ssangyong, same goes for the W140!

 

[Ian B Walker]

In a way the W124 lives on under the bodywork of a Ssangyong, same goes for the W140!

Thanks Nick..........now I'm worried

 

[BenzComander]

With my inward looking blinkered interpretation of where we went wrong, I blame the trade unions!!!! This is my very own personal opinion and I throw it into the pot in the hope of further good debate. Trade unions to me are responsible for the welfare of their members. This obviously includes pay, but when you strangle the industry that you work for, then to me the union has failed to look after the very members that pay their union dues.

A friend of mine works for a company that makes parts for Rover; he is a production line manager of the machine shop. When he first started the job he noticed a guy stood by one of the machining centers doing nothing and the machine was not running. When he asked the question what was happening the reply was that the machine had just stopped. He asked the operator why he had not alerted him and the operator replied "It's not my job" He would have just stood there till the end of his shift! When people have a lack of pride or desire to help their company improve you are fighting a losing battle. Please understand that I am sure there are a great many good people who work for Rover, but it only takes a few to instill some stupid working practices to bring it all down.

When we visited the Mercedes factory for the tour, I was struck by the fact that over 80% of steel used was German steel and over 80% of the machines were German built.

 

[Ian B Walker]

And 100% of rust was also German

 

[Satch]

Back when Pheonix (a consortium of Venture Capital outfits) cobbled together a deal to "save" Rover it was obvious that this was not going to be for the long haul. Government was happy then as it saved them agnst and encouraged the deal in a number of shabby ways.

Yes, Pheonix wanted to turn Rover around or at least keep it going in an orderly fashion, but only so they could exit by selling it on at a vast profit at a later date. The individuals who run Rover would have made a boatload each because terms of these deals invariably contain "performance hurdles" and "kickers" which richly reward the management if the investors got a return on their equity investments above preset points together with repayment of loans. Absolutely clear where their best interest lay.

(Q: Why do Venture Capitalists walk into a room backwards?

A. So they can always keep their eyes on the exit......)

So all the garbage about "last UK car maker gone" makes me angry. Even if Rover had done well it would always have ended up in the hands of someone who wanted it and that was bound to be a non UK outfit. Always just a matter of time.

The Government hand wringing is just that: they have long known all this and that it was done for. State Aid is a non runner other than short term loans, Gordon Brown has no spare cash no matter what lies he tells and no senior politician of any party wants to be associated with a disaster, just Patricia Hewitt who has no option and has to make encouraging but useless noises.

The whole bunch were just hoping SIAC would sweep it up and secure jobs and/or it would not collapse the before the election.

All the decent bits of the old structure (Land Rover, Mini, Jaguar) went to others who could properly fund product development. MG could perhaps go the same way but Rover, well, sorry to say, is an old dog and will most likely have to be put down unless the Chinese come along and buy it up cheap from the Receiver.

Ooooh! Could it possibly be that somebody might have thought of that already...........

 

[nickg]

AFAIK Hewitt should resign. She told the press that the company had been put into Administration, which was incorrect.
That woman is a ******* ********

 

[BenzComander]

And 100% of rust was also German

Cant blame the steel for rusting! Blame the cr*p surface prep and the sub standard paint

 

[Satch]

Cant blame the steel for rusting! Blame the cr*p surface prep and the sub standard paint

Most steels commonly used for car construction will rust but cheaper steels tend to be made with a higher scrap metal content and a lower content of other other (expensive) metals and compounds that improve their resistance to corrosion. None of that helps, especially where heavily pressed panels and joined panels (doors, tailgates) are concerned

Care to guess what MB did as part of their drive to eliminate "over-engineering" and reduce costs?

This is a really good, if depressing, site on the whole miserable topic of rust:

http://www.corrosion-doctors.org/Car/Car.htm

 

[nickg]

OT?
Please move to the Steel/Rust Forum

 

[anarchy-inc]

. . .I blame the trade unions!!!!

I agree with you 100%. I have always held the belief that unions were a good thing many years ago when they were first formed but are a waste of space now. Years ago, companies were abusing employees with ultra low wages, unsafe working practices etc etc etc and the unions brought about change. The change has come largely by the government eventually sorting out the laws which protect workers. Now that we have these, the unions are no longer needed. And as you rightly said, the unions have not helped Rover by continually striking and driving wages to unsustainable levels.

Now I know I'll get flak for this but I think the same is true for many other sectors like steel and coal.

 

[peterchurch]

I agree with you 100%. I have always held the belief that unions were a good thing many years ago when they were first formed but are a waste of space now. Years ago, companies were abusing employees with ultra low wages, unsafe working practices etc etc etc and the unions brought about change. The change has come largely by the government eventually sorting out the laws which protect workers. Now that we have these, the unions are no longer needed. And as you rightly said, the unions have not helped Rover by continually striking and driving wages to unsustainable levels.

Now I know I'll get flak for this but I think the same is true for many other sectors like steel and coal.

I agree 100% If the miners hadn't played up so much int the 70's there would still be an industry today...