niketpatel71
Active Member
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2010
- Messages
- 232
last time i checked i didnt think these guys had star!
Specialist Review - AUTOMERC, North London
- Thread starter Moth
- Start date
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OP
OP
Moth
Member
They have in fact got Star diagnosis... I think Ivan said they'd brought it in about 4 years ago. They also have the BMW system, and VAG com.
OP
OP
Moth
Member
I have just come back from 1300 miles of Summer holiday driving following an MOT and a maintenance service down at Automerc.
While it was there, I asked for some investigation to try to find the cause of a long-standing issue... the dreaded rough idle that so many 124 owners have experienced. The car never stalled or surged dangerously, but was always lumpy at idle and sometimes jerky while slowly reversing or coming to a halt due to the small fluctuation in revs.
Joe did a thorough job of fault-finding and fixing several issues that together have all but cured the problem. I will detail this work in a separate thread, as he identified one fault on my car that may well affect many others - he says it's quite a common one, but I haven't seen it mentioned much in the endless 'idling' threads already posted. Search for 'W124 M111 poor idle solved' if it might be of interest to you...
Anyway, as many have discovered before me, a badly idling motor can be a real challenge to diagnose and fix - so many components, adjustments or combinations of factors can be to blame. It's tempting to begin throwing parts at the problem as investigation and testing is so time-consuming. For a mechanic there's always a risk that, despite having to charge for time and parts, there might be no improvement to show the customer at the end of a day or two in the shop - not a nice situation to be in. So well done Joe, a great result with a difficult problem, and without changing any expensive parts 'just to see'...
While it was there, I asked for some investigation to try to find the cause of a long-standing issue... the dreaded rough idle that so many 124 owners have experienced. The car never stalled or surged dangerously, but was always lumpy at idle and sometimes jerky while slowly reversing or coming to a halt due to the small fluctuation in revs.
Joe did a thorough job of fault-finding and fixing several issues that together have all but cured the problem. I will detail this work in a separate thread, as he identified one fault on my car that may well affect many others - he says it's quite a common one, but I haven't seen it mentioned much in the endless 'idling' threads already posted. Search for 'W124 M111 poor idle solved' if it might be of interest to you...
Anyway, as many have discovered before me, a badly idling motor can be a real challenge to diagnose and fix - so many components, adjustments or combinations of factors can be to blame. It's tempting to begin throwing parts at the problem as investigation and testing is so time-consuming. For a mechanic there's always a risk that, despite having to charge for time and parts, there might be no improvement to show the customer at the end of a day or two in the shop - not a nice situation to be in. So well done Joe, a great result with a difficult problem, and without changing any expensive parts 'just to see'...
SO what was the cause, you dont seem to have detailed it in any other thread?
Mine had a lumpy idle which I thought was down to an air leak but I think ive found the culprit being the plastic cover behind the rotor arm which had a small crack in it...
Mine had a lumpy idle which I thought was down to an air leak but I think ive found the culprit being the plastic cover behind the rotor arm which had a small crack in it...
That little badge is something everyone who joins or renews membership in a certain Mercedes club gets.
OP
OP
Moth
Member
incorrect valve timing causes poor / rough / lumpy idle
Sorry jaymanek, haven't got around to posting the detailed version elsewhere yet. In brief, some small issues of the kind you describe with your car were diagnosed on mine too. I needed new plugs and leads, a new battery and some minor repairs to wiring at some of the sensors (all of which may or may not have contributed to the problem but needed addressing regardless), and replacement of 2 suspect vacuum hoses. OVP, EGR valve and MAF sensor were tested and proved healthy. However, Joe had a hunch there was another factor behind the problem, and he was right as it turned out. It was inncorrect valve timing.
As every 124 owner knows, the late-model 4 and 6 cylinder flavours have both been prone to head gasket failure, often at around 100,000 miles, and so most of the well-maintained cars still on the roads have had the work done by now. My M111 E220 is no different, the job was done by a previous owner in 2010 at a Mitsubishi (ex-MB) main dealer.
Here's the thing: The VVT (variable valve timing) is particularly tricky to set correctly without specific experience of these engines. After the head gasket has been replaced, often by non-MB garages or dealers, Automerc reckon that in many cases the valve timing will not be set correctly - it's an issue they've found before while chasing a solution to lumpy idling and one which they think may account for many other cases of poor idle in the 16v 4 cylinder cars and the other post-'93 models.
Joe found that my car was indeed suffering from incorrect adjustment of the valve timing, and adjusted it accordingly. The problem is much improved now - these M111's are a little rough around the edges at the best of times but I think fitting new engine mounts would probably have mine idling as smoothly as it ever has. Incidentally, fuel economy has been marginally improved by these adjustments too (as would be expected) and the car feels generally smoother through the rev range.
So that's it - if you have a poor idle that's proving stubborn to fix, check the service history: a head gasket replacement by a non-MB mechanic or specialist may well have left you with incorrect valve timing. Despite being beyond the abilities of many owners, it's not a particularly fearsome job for someone who does have the experience, and at a specialist garage at least it's just a bill for time rather than expensive parts. It will also allow the easy inspection and replacement of timing cover and cam cover seals, valve seals and so on while the adjustments are made - there are bound to be some cheap rubber bits in there getting ready to spring a leak.
Cheers
Tim
Sorry jaymanek, haven't got around to posting the detailed version elsewhere yet. In brief, some small issues of the kind you describe with your car were diagnosed on mine too. I needed new plugs and leads, a new battery and some minor repairs to wiring at some of the sensors (all of which may or may not have contributed to the problem but needed addressing regardless), and replacement of 2 suspect vacuum hoses. OVP, EGR valve and MAF sensor were tested and proved healthy. However, Joe had a hunch there was another factor behind the problem, and he was right as it turned out. It was inncorrect valve timing.
As every 124 owner knows, the late-model 4 and 6 cylinder flavours have both been prone to head gasket failure, often at around 100,000 miles, and so most of the well-maintained cars still on the roads have had the work done by now. My M111 E220 is no different, the job was done by a previous owner in 2010 at a Mitsubishi (ex-MB) main dealer.
Here's the thing: The VVT (variable valve timing) is particularly tricky to set correctly without specific experience of these engines. After the head gasket has been replaced, often by non-MB garages or dealers, Automerc reckon that in many cases the valve timing will not be set correctly - it's an issue they've found before while chasing a solution to lumpy idling and one which they think may account for many other cases of poor idle in the 16v 4 cylinder cars and the other post-'93 models.
Joe found that my car was indeed suffering from incorrect adjustment of the valve timing, and adjusted it accordingly. The problem is much improved now - these M111's are a little rough around the edges at the best of times but I think fitting new engine mounts would probably have mine idling as smoothly as it ever has. Incidentally, fuel economy has been marginally improved by these adjustments too (as would be expected) and the car feels generally smoother through the rev range.
So that's it - if you have a poor idle that's proving stubborn to fix, check the service history: a head gasket replacement by a non-MB mechanic or specialist may well have left you with incorrect valve timing. Despite being beyond the abilities of many owners, it's not a particularly fearsome job for someone who does have the experience, and at a specialist garage at least it's just a bill for time rather than expensive parts. It will also allow the easy inspection and replacement of timing cover and cam cover seals, valve seals and so on while the adjustments are made - there are bound to be some cheap rubber bits in there getting ready to spring a leak.
Cheers
Tim
I've been using Automerc for the past 6 years for my w210 estate. Excellent service from Ivan and his team. They've taken a reasonable high miler and ironed out the niggles over the years to provide me with a great car that just works, day in day out at over 150,000 miles. Love it, apart from that dreaded rust creep..
smoothrider
Active Member
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2011
- Messages
- 217
- Car
- W126 300SE
I have used AutoMerc and feel confident in the quality of their work. They do it properly and meticulously. Quality comes at a price though - I paid over £600 to have the valve stem seals on my W126 changed.
Valve stem seals on a W126 with a V8 engine should take four hours max plus the seals. If it's a M103 engine then it can be done in a little over an hour. M110 is about three hours.
In all cases the technician should check the valve guides for wear during the work as to put new valve stem seals on worn valve guides is palliative.
It does help to prove the cause of a smoking engine before a total strip-down though.
It's nearly always the case on any of these engines that the valve guides are worn if the mileage is over 100,000. A switch to fully synthetic oil after a rebuild will give much longer life but it's a waste of money switching to synthetic oils on an engine that's already done some miles on mineral oil.
In all cases the technician should check the valve guides for wear during the work as to put new valve stem seals on worn valve guides is palliative.
It does help to prove the cause of a smoking engine before a total strip-down though.
It's nearly always the case on any of these engines that the valve guides are worn if the mileage is over 100,000. A switch to fully synthetic oil after a rebuild will give much longer life but it's a waste of money switching to synthetic oils on an engine that's already done some miles on mineral oil.
smoothrider
Active Member
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2011
- Messages
- 217
- Car
- W126 300SE
AutoMerc charged 6.5 hours labour to do the valve stem oil seals on my M103 engine.
Spanner's estimate of an hour has been corroborated by four different Merc indies who have quoted 2 hours labour max for this job.
Perhaps AutoMerc are more meticulous, perhaps they did overcharge me, who knows... life gives and then it takes!
Last edited:
niketpatel71
Active Member
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2010
- Messages
- 232
i don't know why even though automerc is just up the road from me I never liked the response or feeling I got when I went in there. Instead I opted to go all the way to harrow to terry at Wayne gates mercedes servicing, after reading the above posters experience I'm glad I followed my gut instinct. Charging someone two and a half hours extra is not on mate.
smoothrider
Active Member
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2011
- Messages
- 217
- Car
- W126 300SE
NiketPatel71's comment shows a big part of customer satisfaction is how one gets on with the garage, and that is a personal thing. I found AutoMerc to be polite and business like, and time has shown their work is good.
However, having discovered I was charged 6.5 hours labour for a job other reputable Merc Indys have quoted as 2 hours left a question mark.
BlueQuinn
Active Member
I've just brought the 300TE back from Automerc after they had it in for 2 days servicing it, pressure testing and fixing the cooling system, flushing and replacing the coolant, replacing the left front spring and wishbone, ARB bushes, replacing the cam cover and timing cover seals and the belt tensioner and sorting out my handbrake.
It wasn't cheap - labour alone for all that came to £960 which is reasonable I think, and about the same again for parts, but it was worth every penny.
The guys there were just great. I'm definitely going to be using them from now on.
It drives like a new car now. Quiet, planted and very eager. I thought it was decent before. Now I think I'm in love!
It wasn't cheap - labour alone for all that came to £960 which is reasonable I think, and about the same again for parts, but it was worth every penny.
The guys there were just great. I'm definitely going to be using them from now on.
It drives like a new car now. Quiet, planted and very eager. I thought it was decent before. Now I think I'm in love!
OP
OP
Moth
Member
Good to know. Since I did what you did - biting the bullet and getting the car up-to-date with maintenance and repairs - I have had 18 months of 100% reliability so far and a great time with the car. Hope this means you'll hang on to yours - getting rarer by the year now, aren't they?
I like the new Automerc premises, too. Large, clean, full of interesting cars.
Cheers.
I like the new Automerc premises, too. Large, clean, full of interesting cars.
Cheers.
Screwdriver
Active Member
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2008
- Messages
- 420
My W123 is with Automerc right now. I'm expecting a quote of 1500 quid for the following:
1) Replace Front suspension arm ball joints and realign wheels
2) Replace a corroded copper brake pipe + bleed and renew brake fluid
3) Rear window not working (repair or replace motor)
4) Repair Speedometer Wobble - first by lubricating the wire or replacing it
5) Replace left and right rear anti-roll bar link rods
6) Replace rear exhaust silencer with mountings with OEM supplier
7) Inspect loose air filter housing + replace air filter
8) Replace Power steering fluid + filter
I feel robbed but Im still looking for their level of professionalism at a lower price
1) Replace Front suspension arm ball joints and realign wheels
2) Replace a corroded copper brake pipe + bleed and renew brake fluid
3) Rear window not working (repair or replace motor)
4) Repair Speedometer Wobble - first by lubricating the wire or replacing it
5) Replace left and right rear anti-roll bar link rods
6) Replace rear exhaust silencer with mountings with OEM supplier
7) Inspect loose air filter housing + replace air filter
8) Replace Power steering fluid + filter
I feel robbed but Im still looking for their level of professionalism at a lower price
bolide
MB Enthusiast
That's one of the great quotes of our time
When you succeed in your search, do let us know!
Nick Froome
Screwdriver
Active Member
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- Oct 20, 2008
- Messages
- 420
The car came back today. Ivan, the proprietor, spent as much time as I needed to walk me through the work done.
Then we walked down automotive memory lane. We talked about each of the models he had at Automerc at the time, a Pagoda, a W115 but most of all the W123, a car he clearly loved. What is fascinating is that I felt like I was talking with an old friend.
I have no doubt that he is a sharp businessman. But he also has an obvious fondness for classic Mercedes cars, which is why I would probably go back to Automerc. But only if I can convince him to be just a bit kinder to my wallet.
Group buy anyone?
Then we walked down automotive memory lane. We talked about each of the models he had at Automerc at the time, a Pagoda, a W115 but most of all the W123, a car he clearly loved. What is fascinating is that I felt like I was talking with an old friend.
I have no doubt that he is a sharp businessman. But he also has an obvious fondness for classic Mercedes cars, which is why I would probably go back to Automerc. But only if I can convince him to be just a bit kinder to my wallet.
Group buy anyone?
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